Excuse the Intermission
Alex and Max take you on a journey through film with this discussion podcast about movies.
Excuse the Intermission
Ranking The Omen Series: Faith and Fear in Film
As the Omen film franchise creeps back into the spotlight, we couldn't help but get wrapped up in the spine-chilling allure of the series' latest entry. Join us on an eerie journey as we rank the Omen films, including the prequel that's been turning heads and raising hairs. This episode isn't just about rankings though; we dive into the evolution of the chilling Damien character and the masterful acting that brought him to life. Reflect with us on the triumphs and tribulations of faith-based horror, and how movies like Immaculate are reshaping what we expect from the shadows of the cinema.
How's it? I'm Alex McCauley and I'm Max Vosberg, and this is, excuse the Intermission. A discussion show surrounding the first Omen, the latest in a long line of legacy horror prequels and sequels, is upon us in the form of this new Omen film. And while we've seen various franchises go this route to varying degrees of success, something feels special about this one. Franchises go this route to varying degrees of success. Something feels special about this one. So ahead on this episode, we will dissect the new film, rank the entire franchise and then look forward to next week's 200th episode. Max is also getting ready to leave on a trip to Rome for a sabbatical at an orphanage, so we'll bid him adieu as well. On the other side of this break, this episode is brought to you by the Seattle Film Society.
Speaker 2:The Seattle Film Society is an artist-run project that provides direct support and mentorship to filmmakers of all levels Through screenings, educational opportunities and community initiatives. The Seattle Film Society strives to be a centralizing force for Seattle filmmakers.
Speaker 1:Their monthly screening event, Locals Only, is held at the Arc Lodge Cinemas in Columbia City and showcases the most exciting new voices in Seattle filmmaking. Tickets are $10 and available now via Eventbrite.
Speaker 2:To keep up with the Seattle Film Society. Be sure to check them out on Instagram and Letterboxd at Seattle Film Society or on their website seattlefilmsocietycom Come be a part of the next generation of Seattle filmmaking today, All right. Max, we're back. Yes, you are not actually, we are so back.
Speaker 1:You are not actually going abroad, but I wish I was.
Speaker 2:They rejected my application to the orphanage, unfortunately. They said I had too many 666 symbols all over my body.
Speaker 1:It wouldn't have been a mystery. It would have been very obvious as to what we were trying to do. What a month, though, for international travel, for young Americans looking to give back to their faith.
Speaker 2:I love what you said in your review. What a month for non-sploitation.
Speaker 1:Yes, the non-sploitation sub-genre of of horror or whatever you want to call it. Um, it's really been great. The top letterbox review for the first omen is simply this happened to my friend, cecilia a few weeks ago. Cecilia is sy Sidney Sweeney's character in Immaculate. Very similar films.
Speaker 1:I will say and so maybe we should just kind of start with that before we actually dive into the Omen franchise. But I was kind of starting to think about this. It's remarkable that these two different horror films that are extremely similar in plot and in premise have both found really a lot of success here over the last like month and had great word of mouth, pretty decent reviews across the board and I was like this kind of used to happen with with other genres that I can think about.
Speaker 1:Like for a while there there was a lot of the same sort of like. I wouldn't call them musicals, but you had, like you got served and stomped the yard and drum line Like you know, kind of when like you tap into something, when certain filmmakers will tap into something, and then it becomes a copycat league. But this, these two films being released so close in tandem, it feels like a really kind of fun special moment for the horror genre right now, and so I don't know.
Speaker 1:I know you haven't had a chance to see immaculate yet, but I haven't. But I'm telling you this I mean, if you were a fan of the omen and you haven't seen that film, go see immaculate and if you've seen immaculate and you're not sure if you're gonna like the omen, go see it, because these two movies, while being their own story, work so well together well, yeah, I think, I think it's.
Speaker 2:It's really, you know, it's the faith based horror, uh the satanic panic the satanic panic and like for decades yeah, it's, it's worked forever, absolutely. Um, going back to exorcist and and the rosemary's baby rosemary's baby, the, the original omen. Um, and I I think maybe we just haven't had that taste in a while, right, uh, I mean before, immaculate. When was the last big like, yeah, satanic demon, you know, devil movie, I mean examination of, like the relationship between christianity or any type of faith for that matter.
Speaker 1:And if you were to?
Speaker 2:it's always Christianity, though.
Speaker 1:It usually is. But if you are a devout believer in God in heaven and in the Bible, then you also must believe that these things can come to pass, and I just think that that is such an effective like. I. I've spoken to a lot of people, um, just within the last couple of days, like at work and stuff about this, and they're like oh yeah, I stay away from scary movies like that, and I think part of that is a little bit of this like subconscious belief in them that like it's a little taboo and like well, you know, I kind of go to church every now and then and that's not really an avenue I want to go down and explore those ideas.
Speaker 1:But that's what makes these movies so effective. It really does, because not only do they create it for, for folks like us, a really good entertainment, but it's also thought provoking, I think, and and it makes it makes the, the medium of film so exciting, because when you see certain images in immaculate and the First Omen, both contain certain scenes and images that are already being spoken about like they're going to go down as kind of like classic scenes from horror films, at least in this year, that's exciting because that's what helps movies live on, is that kind of reputation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, that's really interesting. You say that I'm watching this docu series on HBO right now called the power of movies. Uh, it's by uh, carl's I think it's Carl Suber Stuber. He's a professor at USC, a film professor, and you know one of the episodes he focuses on, like for movies to be remembered and to be rewatched and the movies that stay with us. Really, it comes down to one scene. It comes down to Quint's speech in Jaws, it comes down to, you know, the restaurant killing in the Godfather, like there are just scenes that stick with us. So I think that's just hit it, really hit a button for you to say that and yeah, both of these I'm and I'm taking your word for immaculate, but definitely the first omen. I felt there were at least two or three scenes that are going to stick with me, which we can, we can go through and talk about. But man, what a, what an experience to watch that movie in the theater.
Speaker 1:I already can't wait for it to be available at home to watch on demand, so that, not only so that not only can I watch the entire film front to back, but there's a couple of scenes that you know will be clipped onto YouTube and that if you just want to go watch like the birthing scene oh my God. Or if you just want to go watch like the birthing scene.
Speaker 2:Oh my God.
Speaker 1:Or if you just want to go watch some of the other big moments of the film. Yeah, you can just fire them up and that's going to be awesome for this film.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and listen, people are going to be like, Max, you're out of your mind. But like, put this on. If, once we get to a point where we are doing, uh, the all decade team for the 2020s horror, I think this movie has a spot. You know this movie when, when, when the dust is settled and we can come back and examine this this decade, this movie is fantastic and, uh, neil tiger free. I know it's april and it's rainy and cloudy and, and it's early in the year, we're looking forward to projects months away. However, however, listen, I think, I think she should be nominated it's a fantastic performance it is so, so good, it really is so good I.
Speaker 1:I do think that this is already something I think that we can say and that we can attach to. The first omen is that of the recent and when I say recent I'm using sort of a loose term there maybe the last five or seven years. When it comes to we'll, we'll call them classic horror franchises and the reboots that are either sequels or prequels. This is top of my list. Oh, you think about evil dead rise. You think about this exorcist film that we've had, the halloween movies. Different franchises have tried to reboot and to regain interest from their fans. Nothing's been as successful, I in my opinion, as the first omen. And now it's interesting we'll start to have this conversation as we sort of go through chronologically how this franchise has come to be.
Speaker 2:But maybe it's because folks had kind of forgotten about the omen a little bit, I think, probably, and it's not, you know, it's not. Yeah, it's not stuffed full of sequels and prequels and all that stuff, right like halloween you know, we've been getting a halloween movie on average, probably once every three or four years since the original came out.
Speaker 1:Exactly um now same with texas chainsaw.
Speaker 2:Texas chainsaw, friday the 13th yeah you know, and sometimes you know you get a little tired of that, uh, and so to yeah that this, this movie, I, I think the the amount of time that we had away from this franchise and then to come out and also like listen, fox, searchlight, a round of applause for them, because they let this filmmaker and the writers cook, and just the way it's shot and and made the craft behind it. It looks like a 70s film, not because of a film grain they put on, uh, but because of the way it's shot like. There are so many close-ups throughout this film and it fucking it gets you so locked in, so locked into these people's faces. Yeah, it is. It is probably one of the best, one of the best revivals of a horror franchise to recent date.
Speaker 1:So the cinematographer is Aaron Morton, and this is a guy who's done a lot of Black Mirror. So, shot in, shot in series or shot a lot of that series. But then also did the Fetty Alvarez Evil Dead reboot, which is probably on that short list of successful horror reboots. It reminded me a lot of that film. And then now this gives me hope going forward, because he's also the cinematographer on Abigail. Now, Abigail still looks pretty goofy.
Speaker 2:That's the ballerina vampire kidnapping film, if you're unfamiliar with that.
Speaker 1:I'm sure the trailer has been played somewhere near you um but, but it makes me a little bit more excited for that. And then a film I know you saw last year that I still have not um been able to see. But no one will save you the alien abduction film okay, okay, yeah, and that was a decent film.
Speaker 2:It it's not so much scary, it's much more science fiction than than it is horror.
Speaker 1:But but I know you talked you, you did like. One of the things I remember you saying was you did like the way it looked yeah, yeah, yeah, it looks great and and that was an interesting concept too, but yeah, yeah, so aaron morton a dp someone to watch?
Speaker 2:yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:So the first omen, and now I do want to talk about this more when we're ranking the entire franchise together. But the way that I have a relationship with the omen I feel like is maybe a little bit different than the way that other folks have a relationship with the omen, because this was actually my dad's favorite scary movie growing up, so that original played in our house a lot and I can remember when dvds first came out him needing to own the dvd and to re-watch the movie and that's when it kind of was introduced to me and in the the big dramatic fox logo before it fires up and everything that was.
Speaker 1:Another interesting part about doing the research for this this week's episode was that all of these omen films are on hulu because if you don't know, right hulu which is owned by disney because fox is owned by disney, and so this is actually the first omen, is the first big Disney release of 2024. And this is a film that was almost rated in C 17.
Speaker 2:Again I hate to say it because everyone knows I don't care for the mouse but a round of applause for not like a putting it out in theaters be letting them, or for putting it out in theaters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:You put it out in theaters and yeah, you're not. Yes, there's stuff I've read that there's stuff that they had to take out, but that's because they didn't want the NC-17. But it is a hard R, oh yeah, and it earns that.
Speaker 1:R it does, and that enough right. There was good and enough to get me in the theater opening weekend was the relationship to just the original yeah and then hearing, not so much seeing a trailer or knowing too much about anybody involved in the filmmaking, because it is relatively a cast of unknowns, aside from a few old white european faces, and I love some great character guys. I love the performances from charles dance and ralph einstein bill nye.
Speaker 2:Just insane that they got those guys all three of those guys.
Speaker 1:One of them would have been enough. The holy trinity, I love it, but a rather unknown cast and in a film that had you know. Just some of the headlines that I was reading was like almost rated NC 17 for a graphic birthing scene. And I well, oh my gosh, I'm so like that's enough?
Speaker 2:I wonder, that's enough? There's a couple. There's a couple birthing scenes.
Speaker 1:There are two, and I wonder which one.
Speaker 2:I wonder if they had to take stuff away from both or if I had that question as well. Yeah, cause when the first one hits you think this is it. Yeah, but I'm guessing it might have been the one later. But who knows, who knows.
Speaker 1:I hope there's an unrated that just comes out.
Speaker 2:That would be really neat and they should, they definitely will.
Speaker 1:Right, yes.
Speaker 2:I hope so. Just give us a physical, that's all I'm hoping Every single movie that comes out nowadays. I'm like like will we have a physical release of this? Are we already there?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think we are sub note the dvd collection subreddit page is going crazy right now because we know that best buy has done away with their physical media section. Target still has a limited physical media section. Walmart has these dumpster dive bins, these five dollar bins that now have like 4ks in them, steel books in them, holy shit. So we gotta go. Yeah, we, we make a trip to walmart.
Speaker 2:We need dude. I will go to walmart, let's go 8 am yeah you know, right when they open, um, yeah, there's 4ks and steel books in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know what? We could probably find a four pack of the original Omen series.
Speaker 1:I bet it's actually a great point. Fox used to love to release those four pack DVDs. It's like one disc somehow. Okay, so talk to me a little bit, because we did not see this film, the First Omen, together. So, talk to me a little bit about your theater going experience and kind of your initial gut reactions and what the mood was like yeah, I mean going in.
Speaker 2:I went down to the lovely theater and rustin at the cinemark. Uh, thanks to those guys, I gotta, I didn't have to pay for my ticket and get a little movie credit every month from them. Love them, um, please sponsor this podcast, uh, and yeah, so theater was, theater was pretty full. Like uh, you know, I, I, I wasn't sitting right in the middle, I wasn't sitting exactly where I wanted to sit, um, but it was, it was. It was a well-attended screening about, uh, what, like 1 o'clock on a Sunday matinee. It's funny because I was walking up to my seat and the row behind me was just like a big gaggle of teens and I was just like, oh no, oh no, this is going to this might ruin it.
Speaker 1:They don't know what movie they're in.
Speaker 2:But I tell you what from the opening credits you could hear a pin drop. People were quiet, respectful People were scared. A couple seats down from me was another grown man and multiple times we were covering our faces while we were watching and then kind of like glancing at each other, did you see that? And then kind of like glancing at each other, like did you see that?
Speaker 2:So shout out to that guy because he was really scared as well. But yeah, no, it was a really great, really great theater experience. Again, you know, if the movie can capture you within the first you know 20 minutes, 10 minutes and like really capture the audience, then like it's, it's going to be a good ride and I think they do something really smart too in accomplishing what you just spoke about, because that is the one scene with Charles dance. Most people recognize and they show you exactly like hey, this, this is just the beginning.
Speaker 1:This is what you're going to see throughout the film Right, and so you get Tywin Lannister meeting his fate very early on, we're introduced to the Ralph Einstein character and then we're off.
Speaker 1:We're off on our story and there's a lot of familiar beats. And so as a fan of, like, the original Omen, you understand that if there's like stained glass being lifted on some scalp folding outside of church whether it's stained glass or not plate glass you understand, as a student of the omen films, that danger is lurking and so it's a ticking time bomb opening scene and it plays out really, really well. So I appreciate that. I had a pretty similar theater going experience. It sounds like, but just a little bit more raucous. And that's because I went to go see the film at the town center out in Lakewood and I love that AMC two o'clock matinee showing this past Sunday with, I would say, a 60 to 70% full theater who were very animated, who, I think, understood what movie they were walking into and were respectful during the first and the second act.
Speaker 1:Who were very animated, who, I think, understood what movie they were walking into and were respectful during the first and the second act. But when certain moments happened, and then especially in the third, act and in the final like 20 minutes. There were a few people. There was one woman in particular who screamed back at the screen oh hell no, and everybody. It was like everybody in the theater is thinking that At this moment, and it was like everybody in the theater is thinking that at this moment, and it was so fun, that's perfect.
Speaker 1:I've been in theaters before where it has been that consistently.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:I'll never forget my first time seeing Get Out in a theater. Same reaction, but throughout people talking back and interacting with the screen in a way that isn't distracting, it's fun. It's this community. I felt that a little bit with this movie. So that is really fun when a movie can evoke that out of its audience. I leaving the theater and it's. It is because the film ends on like a great exclamation point, the final scene a little withstanding.
Speaker 1:It feels a little comic booky almost so much where like that is disney coming in, that is the studio coming in and that is my one.
Speaker 2:Well, I have two knits and that, yeah, that final, final scene is a after credits. Like stainer, yes, uh, and it feels very tacked on by the studio and in the spirit, unnecessary because we know. We know what this is and and, and you know, in by going back and watching the other omen movies this week in the spirit of the original material. That is not how an omen movie should end.
Speaker 1:Nope, nope, um it should end with like a freeze frame end nope, nope, um.
Speaker 2:It should end with, like a freeze frame, somebody looking directly at the camera and and like all our heroes dying. Oh yeah, our protagonists yes, dying. Yes, um, depending on what side you're on right, a boy, um, but yeah, so that that i't like that. And my other nitpick is we don't get any. We don't get the Bible really, which I thought was interesting. There was no like scripture reading.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was no like someone flipping through a Bible of all the other films.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Bible always, like, makes an appearance and and we're reading something from the Bible, and so I thought that was really interesting too, and I wonder if that was kind of a studio note as well.
Speaker 1:Well then, that sort of leads me to, and one of the tough things that I did find about the first act was kind of how to find my footing within this world where we're at an orphanage whereas, like in Immaculate Sydney, Sweeney is studying at a convent where she's going to become a nun, and so we are surrounded in religion. We are and we aren't in the first omen, because we're at this orphanage that is obviously ran by the church and yet it's not really one of these like regimented schedules that the kids are on where it's like we're pulling.
Speaker 1:What is our girl's name?
Speaker 2:Is it Celeste Something?
Speaker 1:similar.
Speaker 2:It's not that, though, but it's something similar.
Speaker 1:It's not like we're pulling her out of Bible study, like they're doing arts and crafts, yeah, doing some of these other things, and so it is kind of interesting that note that we are at an orphanage and not an actual like house of god right if you will, yeah, yeah, and like we're going out, the nuns don't have to stay at this orphanage or they don't go back to their own living quarters.
Speaker 1:They kind of had it, you know, and immaculate is a lot like this as well, but it almost has that daria argento, suspiria, vibe where it's like the girls who are all at the ballet.
Speaker 1:They kind of have their living um quarters, they have their roommates, but they're a little bit allowed to do kind of their own thing. Well, we are really allowed to do our own thing in this film, as as our nuns who are practicing, and so that that to me was just I liked it don't get me wrong but I just kind of had to find my footing. What are the rules of this world? What are people allowed to do and what are they not allowed to do?
Speaker 1:and who can I trust and what is this character's motivation versus what is this character's motivation? I really liked that um, because I thought it created some good world building and it acted pretty well as like a period piece, because it helps you really feel the like 1970s-esque vibe that not only the filmmaking is going for and accomplishes, I think very subtly, but like we're going to the disco in this movie you know the way people dress the cars that are being driven.
Speaker 1:So I did like that, that we were able to kind of go out into this world and all of that felt very tactile.
Speaker 2:I did like that part of it yeah, I also thought it was really interesting how they kind of they kind of like get you with maybe two like traditional jump scares right at the beginning and that makes you the way they do them I think is really really well done. But it almost, it almost kind of also confuses you because when she, when she first has her like our main character, Margaret.
Speaker 2:Margaret when she sees that nun in her room that first night but we never really see. I mean, I guess that character comes back every now and then if it's the same, I don't know. I, I I couldn't really tell if it was the same none that we're seeing, because because then we see someone who is actually a character in the film but then you know dies, right, and then they come back in visions.
Speaker 1:So I don't know.
Speaker 1:I I do think what was accomplished well with those early visions was that we have an unreliable narrator in this film, and I do like that because, although this is someone who we are quote unquote rooting for in the movie, we also feel as though there is something off about them from the very beginning, and so I do really like that as well. And maybe that's a little bit of like coming straight off of Immaculate, where I'm not. I'm already not trusting everybody who is being nice and who is supporting our main character, but immediately your guard is up, and even with Margaret, our lead character, and so I did like that part of it. I just you know what I cannot wait to rewatch this movie. Part of it. I just you know what I cannot wait to re-watch this movie. Yeah, I think that's really like. My big takeaway is that not only for some of the louder moments in the third act, which I want our listeners to go see this movie and experience it for themselves.
Speaker 1:But let me just say that there there's a sequence. I put this in my letterbox review. There's a sequence, I put this in my Letterboxd review. There's a sequence at the end of this film that I think is more exciting. That got me to shoot straight up, rub my hands together and kind of think, oh fuck, more than anything that I saw in Dune, part 2. And that is a cinematic achievement of a movie with a capital C. But there is a three minute sequence in this film where, like, my hair's on fire.
Speaker 1:Is this after the car crash. This is this is from the car crash on basically.
Speaker 2:So a little longer than three minutes, you know, but yes, yeah, it's fantastic stuff. I also love how they play with. They play with darkness too, right Cause sometimes they give you a black just a black screen.
Speaker 2:This is a really dimly lit film, yeah, but they sometimes give you a totally black screen and but because they've scared you with some, some early jump scares, you're you're still like looking and you're on edge and it's such a good experience there's also unique transitions in this film, where sometimes a scene just jumps into something else and that, I think, is also really effective in keeping people off balance yeah, as they're watching this movie and I think plays into the 70s feel agreed, definitely agreed.
Speaker 1:So we both cannot recommend this movie enough. It's number two on my, on my top of 2024 I think I have it just behind immaculate, and that's only because immaculate, I feel like, is its own story right and so they're kind of using. They're telling the same story, but without. I don't want to call it the crutch of ip, but this obviously you know and so, but those two are like hand in hand right there behind dune. Part two and the taste of things for me.
Speaker 2:I tell you what I need to. I can't wait to see what neil tiger free does next, because, again, I think she is she. How she plays this role and her performance in it is astonishing, honestly, and like she goes, and she goes at a lot of different speeds, oh yeah, constantly, and uh, I cannot wait to see what she does next. I I had no idea who she was going into this, um, and it might be a little early to buy season tickets, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm definitely buying next time she's in town.
Speaker 1:100 yeah, and same with the director.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really exciting work our kasha, our kasha, yeah. Fantastic Again, I think her first um future film, or at least big studio feature film.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they. They worked on a TV show and then a couple of shorts.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So as far as directing goes, yeah, excited to see what they do in the future as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Okay. So the Omen franchise as a whole. We have four films from the original damien, really three films from the original damien story, a fourth one and then a remake what's the little girl's name? Again, delilah, I think yeah and then our remake, which I believe is 2006. I need to pull it back up here. Is it 2006? It's 2006 or 2007.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with Julia Stiles and Liev Schreiber, yep. Not the worst remake that came from that era, very 2000s, remake, you know.
Speaker 1:But it was in that vein, yeah, where everything was getting remade.
Speaker 2:It's funny watching that. I only got about halfway through that one. But Levi Schreiber, he used to be a young man. About halfway through that one. But levi schreiber, like he used to be a young man, I'm used to seeing him like on hard knocks now walking around the voice, yeah, the voice and like I think he was like featured prominently in this last years where he's like walking on the on the you know, practice field and whatnot, and he looks like an old man now but like going back, I'm like, oh wow, yeah, he wasn't was a skinny young dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not far removed from his appearances in Scream and some of these other movies where you were like he was a total bad guy.
Speaker 2:You always forget. He is kind of a Scream king. It kind of makes so much sense that he was in that 2006 remake. Yeah, yeah. So do we want to start at the?
Speaker 1:back, I'm guessing, started the back end build up, which is, I think there's two inner. There's gonna be two interesting conversations to have here on as we cap right these films. Last is either the remake or the omen 4. It's omen 4 and I think it should be the omen 4 is pretty bad and it's interesting because there's not really.
Speaker 2:We just go to the well.
Speaker 1:That's where they went to the well too many times and I don't think anyone cared then.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And no one certainly cares now.
Speaker 2:And it was in the early 90s where, like these, omen movies always seem to kind of grab some sort of like, if not a B-list, like a plus a, b plus a minus list actor uh, in their somewhere, in their career right.
Speaker 1:And omen 4 really has none of that, absolutely nobody no, um, and it was made like a television, made for tv movie.
Speaker 2:It totally does it feels honestly like the stephen king it mini series or something in that vein, um which you know, the early 90s are kind of tough for horror movies, right? Horror?
Speaker 1:was on, it was dead.
Speaker 2:It was on life support yeah totally um and so, yeah, omen 4 does not work. Don't go watch it. I watched it for you.
Speaker 1:It's bad and then we go into the remake. I think the remake is next to Lee Remick's character in the original one, which is a nice choice to have and sort of like forward thinking, in the sense that we're going to make this more about Damien's relationship with his mother as opposed to in the first one, where, yes, there still is that strong relationship and we see that going forward more and more in the other Omen films Damien's relationship to the women in his life, the mother figures.
Speaker 1:But the first one is really all about gregory peck figuring things out and it's not so much the case in the remake leo schreiber is more on the sidelines really, as as the julius styles character is playing with this idea of who really is my son. I think it's a fine, a fine remake. Like I said there, there are worse remakes and worse prequels and sequels and things that come out in the 2000s, but again it's not the most effective right, kind of forgettable yeah, kind of forgettable.
Speaker 2:Next, I think, is the big discussion between omen 2, damian omen 2 very interesting yeah, weird, weird title and uh the final conflict the final conflict which might just be called the final conflict is it just and not?
Speaker 1:omen 3 the final.
Speaker 2:It's just the final conflict, like we're supposed to know I don't know yeah, well, back then, you know, maybe you kind of did, you kind of did.
Speaker 1:Both of these movies, I think, have a lot of things going for them. In the Final Conflict, you do get more of like an A-list actor in Sam Neill, lending his talents to the production, and he's great. You want to talk about a scream king? Sam Neill is one of the best to ever do it within the genre.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I do really like that, like sam neill's one of the best to ever do it within the genre, yeah, and so I do really like that, and I also like the idea and and what happens in the final conflict with the damien character, where he is fully sentient on who he is right and he's got like an army of followers exactly.
Speaker 1:He's got his team around him and there is no like and and damienmen 2, there is almost this like coming of age story that Damien has to go through to to find himself, which is a little interesting because and I think that you have to do this story wise for plot development in a film, but like when you watch the first movie as a standalone film by the end of that you think this little demon child who is four or five years old knows exactly who they are already. Yeah, no.
Speaker 1:Whereas then like think about it, I mean you kind of forget those times, you know, yeah, I don't know, but I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't have memories from yeah, three and four, yeah, but you also can't recite every single date in history like damien can in in number two where, like I feel like there's just a different level of metacognition with Damien, where he is just. I feel like in that first one he is so aware of his powers already, and then in number two for him to almost have to like rediscover those he's going through puberty it's, it's fair of the demon powers.
Speaker 2:You know because, by the end of that film. He knows exactly, yes, what he's doing. Yes, uh, when he kills his poor brother, mark, I believe, yeah, or step cousin, step cousin, yeah, that's what he is, yeah well, and his yes yeah and and also I, I do think you know horror movies. A big thing about them are the kills right and the kills in damien omen 2. I think are much more exciting or they are, or you know, inventive than than what happens in damien 3.
Speaker 1:Damien 3 is much more of a it's like a drama really yeah, exposition heavy and like we're really like talking about like the stars and and the alignment so interesting as I was rewatching Zodiac stuff, as I was rewatching the final conflict last night, because that was one that I can remember always, bits and pieces being on. Amc and watching growing up, but to rewatch it front to back, the other night on the precipice of a solar eclipse happening the next day.
Speaker 2:I was just like huh.
Speaker 1:I hope nothing else is going on out there.
Speaker 2:Well, luckily it's not the sixth day in the six months. It is not Nope.
Speaker 1:Nope, it's a random Monday in April, so that's fine, um, but but I did think that that was kind of fun because a lot of there is a lot of astrological and celestial workings happening within this universe and workings happening within this universe, and I really like that about all these movies too, and it's really the groundwork that's laid in the first one, but that like these things, these are cosmic things, these are things that have been like well, this is all supposed to happen.
Speaker 2:Exactly this is the prophecy. Yeah, right, this. This is what the bible, you know, is like its backbone.
Speaker 1:Like this will happen, the, the antichrist, will be born and and will wreak havoc on, on you know, humanity I, I do think that in we should probably just wait till we get back to the first omen and when we really start talking about that one versus the omen from 1976. But I, I really like this idea, and this is sort of what happens in Immaculate too, but where the church needs to prove so badly the existence of God that they are willing to go to the extremes the other end of the spectrum to get people to believe in the devil and in Satan, and that's what will get them their power back within the church. Really interesting stuff there that whole concept.
Speaker 1:That's a different podcast um so, okay, I I think I, when I'm hearing you say, and what I am in agreeance with is that number four should be number three number number four on our rankings rankings.
Speaker 2:On our rankings Should be the Omen 3. I think the final conflict comes in there.
Speaker 1:I think so as well. The second film, damien, the Omen 2, omen 2, however it's written, it feels like such, and you put this about the lead actor in your Letterboxd review, and I wrote my review before I read yours and we used the same phrase. You said that he's a working man's actor. Whichever that William Holden is his name.
Speaker 1:I just said, the entire film has a real work men's like mentality to it, where it's that late seventies feeling where every like if you watch the Omen 2, every single set piece, every single stage, everything, everything that they do is all on site, it's all on location and it just has that feel to where, like there was a budget here and we used every single dollar that we could, and this thing in the museum that's on this back shelf that you're never going to pay attention to is exactly where it needs to be and it's exactly what somebody envisioned. It just has that feel to it that is really fun and that it just belongs to the 70s.
Speaker 2:It is it's such a blue collar movie, you know, it works for its, for its thrills, and it scares and and you know, I don't even call it really a scary movie, but but yeah, william holden, I think it kind of really embodies.
Speaker 1:You know what gregory peck does in that first one, we're in denial, we're in denial, we're in denial.
Speaker 2:But we're also, you know. But like we're also, you know, we're, we're figuring this out and we're working at it we become a detective right yeah, and william holden, I think it just come off like network with Cindy Lumet and for him to like just take a left turn into the omen sequel. I mean I think it's what Gregory helped.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he helped kind of set that bar for, I think, actors going forward to understand that it's not even to slum it a little bit, but like it's okay to lend your talents to this genre any genre, right, but just something other than your traditional Oscar bait drama.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that is really exciting that the Omen 2 has that going for it, and I love what you said about the kills, where not only the everything that happens in the snow, it's also quite Christmas never happens but no, but they're.
Speaker 2:It's like a subtle.
Speaker 1:It's subtly a very good like winter movie yeah, you know a lot of snowfall, that the ice hockey scene and the subsequent death that happens, then it's pretty good like really entertaining we're chasing the fastest current the fastest current that a lake has ever had.
Speaker 2:A lake, right, yeah, but then also like we.
Speaker 1:all of a sudden, we we tread into Giallo territory for a minute with, with this, kill from the crow and now I will say whether it's a crow Raven Blackbird, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1:Good stuff there, really good stuff there. That's Crow Raven Blackbird, whatever you want to call it. Good stuff there, really good stuff there. That's a great sequence and there's some camera work in that sequence where, again, I'm like these shots. Everyone here just is on their A game. There's no need for there to be this overhead helicopter shot of the car driving and I'm like we hired a helicopter for half a day to film this five second scene, just this five second shot. That's in this scene, pretty remarkable stuff there.
Speaker 2:but what I, what I do like about and I I'm still keeping that we're keeping the rankings the same here but what I do really, really really like about the third omen film in comparison to the second one is that we bring, we bring back the dog, the dog is yeah, the dog is is a lot cooler than the the bird, the black bird the black bird uh and, and it's too bad, like in the remake, that they change it to like a german shepherd, I believe, or some sort of like, like a shepherd looking dog. Which cool that it's all black, but the rottweiler is kind of iconic iconic, honestly yeah yeah, and it's a hellhound right like it's hell yeah it looks like like what was depicted.
Speaker 2:You know, uh, in ancient times scripture ancient, you're gonna be studying this stuff next week. So you'll, you'll have it all for us, they'll'll figure it out for me.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so now, the discussion that we're about to have and that a lot of people are having online on chat forums is did the first omen, the title of the film that just came out, surpass the first omen?
Speaker 2:the original omen.
Speaker 1:This is hard because I don't want to be a prisoner to recency bias?
Speaker 2:I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't, and they're two different't want to be a prisoner to recency bias.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't, and and they're two different films, they're two completely different films, but I think I I think first omen needs to go two and then the omen goes one especially in and for now for now, because the first omen, like, listen, we have call direct callbacks to the omen. That's where those you know it's all for you and then, you know, lighten myself on fire. Love that scene when, when I realized what was about to happen in that scene.
Speaker 1:Who? Who is that actress too phenomenal like so, is the friend of margaret. Yeah, I looked her up as well. She's really good as as as the nun who the party, nun, the party nun who then naughty nun, who then turns?
Speaker 1:she's got her turn, oh yeah you know um, they're all great really good casting, the whole covenant um, but but yes, I love, I loved the callbacks. So, yeah, the, the, the remake this, this prequel, could not obviously have happened without the original, so it gains respect there, and then, too, I mean, that's like it's an oscar-winning film. The score, the score by jerry goldsmith yeah and that original and he comes back and he does the music for two and I think he he writes the music for three but doesn't compose it.
Speaker 2:I mean incredible stuff that's another thing best horror motif in all of these movies the music is really, really fantastic and just creepy. Yes, you know with the choirs and the Dun dun. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Dun dun, yeah, yeah it's. It's fucking creepy. It's not Halloween, it's not Jaws, but it's right there with those it really things it should be. Yeah, so I do think that that's right. I do think that the first one, which we haven't talked about probably enough yet, has stood the test of time as being something that I think was appreciated when it came out and then, I think, got lost a little bit in the shuffle of everything else that was either quote unquote scarier, that was more graphic, more violent and that continued to spawn like Friday the 13th, 8, nightmare on Elm Street 8.
Speaker 1:You know, it wasn't one of these franchises that had the long legs to span multiple decades, with success, so I think it kind of just got forgotten. That first one, though that first one, you could show that to somebody and say this is one of the best horror movies made from a decade and you're gonna believe it. And I think it's because that's true. It's right there with texas, chainsaw, the exorcist, halloween, all those movies from the 70s, and it deserves to be talked about. Maybe not, it's, maybe not on the mountain rushmore but it's like right there well, it's interesting because it is.
Speaker 2:It's not one you want to show to the kids, right it's? It's an adult procedural movie right. It's the closest thing in the 70s to rosemary's baby right right, so true, I feel like those two movies really operate on on the same level there, whereas something like a lot of patients or even the exorcist, which is a faith horror-based movie, but it has the grotesque and the zane and the zap of the Texas Chainsaw as the nightmares on Elm Street, whereas the Omen is really. It's so plot-driven.
Speaker 2:It's so plot-driven it's such a mystery it's so plot driven, it's so plot driven, it's such a mystery it's got, and I think the prestigious aura around Gregory Peck doing this movie really gives it just a different taste, but a really good taste, and it is one that maybe, if you're a young listener out there, wait to. I would rather come to the omen late than early, I agree.
Speaker 2:Because I can guarantee you I probably came to it too early, because I know I saw it when I was a teen and I thought this is boring and not you know where are all the guts?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But now, in my older age, elderly, uh closer to gregory peck than damien.
Speaker 1:You're closer to gregory peck than damien yeah, uh, then it's.
Speaker 2:It's just way you can appreciate it so much more, because it is just, it is it's kind of a beautiful movie, good yeah, it's so shot beautifully, the music is great, the, the house, that we're in the house, the set, yeah, the and and like, just to like, like right away we're in the birthday party and then like we've got, it's all for you, damien, like that is such an iconic sequence um, and just a horrific sequence, because that's something that could happen. Yeah, that's something you could see happen in real life.
Speaker 1:It's also, too, one of the better. And now this is really if they didn't nail the casting of Damien in the original Omen, this franchise might've never gone on to be anything other than that first film. The actor that they got to play, damien in the original omen, they nailed it.
Speaker 2:I mean, when you talk about, like iconic horror faces, that little kid, I hope he went on to be a, didn't do anything else but I just hope that they were a contributing member of society that did not need therapy you know what, man, I I can't even imagine if you played the antichrist as a kid at like five years old, yeah, and then like that, living with that for the rest of your life. Man, I can't, I can't imagine that like I. I hope they're okay. That's what I'm saying yeah, it's almost like.
Speaker 1:It's almost like danny and the shining, or something, some of these kids who have just nail it who nail it, and you know that that's what they went on to be known for the rest of their life. Oh you know, try to have a normal existence in high school when everyone knows it was probably a really cool thing but also like, wow, you're just opening yourself up to a lot of stuff. Especially too in the days of I mean, when the Omen came out, people were boycotting the movie.
Speaker 1:They're saying that it's blasphemy and everything else, and so we've come a long way since then. The first omen you haven't, I haven't seen there be a lot of pushback against it and especially to disney releasing it. I think, like we said earlier, very brave of them. The film it didn't do as well, I think, as the numbers maybe projected it would do, especially after, I think, like opening, opening night, friday night did like three mil. So I thought, oh, this, maybe you know you would, hopefully you would. What you would like to see then as a studio is for Saturday to be bigger and then Sunday come back down to a little bit more where Friday was Wasn't really the case. It kind of was just like three mil, three mil, three mil and I think it did about like 8 million domestically.
Speaker 2:I bet you'll have a great second weekend.
Speaker 1:I think word of mouth will do really well. And then also, too, it's playing in a lot of theaters internationally, so it actually did better business internationally than it did domestically and is already near like 20 million dollars as of this recording. So so globally speaking, of course, but also really really good, really encouraging and I do think, I do think word of mouth will be really strong yeah, with this one.
Speaker 2:I just hope they don't. I mean, and they probably will, unfortunately, because, like they've, they've set it up now to where it's going to be like a action on the run movie that goes concurrent with the original movies like this is happening over on this side street. Yes, whereas because, because again this movie, I mean it goes directly into the moments of the opening of the original omen which, and that all that part I liked yeah, even, even to the point where they show you a picture of gregory peck.
Speaker 2:This is the us ambassador, who you're going to yeah, the guy, the the priest, our main priest guy who's like helping margaretta he is playing the priest in who comes to peck in the omen right I'm not, maybe with the hair, the shaggy hair gosh, I guess it would be.
Speaker 1:I guess he would be guessing that that is who he was. Yeah, I, I, you know, I I don't know, I don't know, I can't remember names, but but yeah, I don't know if that would make sense though, because he's probably just trying to destroy that child at that point, whereas I think the priest that gives Peck the child he knew what he was doing.
Speaker 2:Well, no, no, no, the priest that comes to Peck's office.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, yes, and is like you're engraved angel. Yes, he is playing that priest. Okay, yes, he's not playing the priest at the hospital. No, no, no, no, no, okay, yeah, no, no, no, no, okay, yeah, no, that's part of the evil covenant.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, right, right. Yes, you'll find out more that you'll find more about. Yeah, yeah, go see the movie.
Speaker 1:It's a it's fun. It's a really fun one to talk about. It's a really fun one to see in a theater with a crowd too.
Speaker 1:It like I can't recommend it as like a date night movie, but if you can see it with a group of friends, yeah or if you and if you and your partner are open to these kind of things, see it on like a friday night or a saturday night, because it is one of these throwback movies that I think will kind of help remind you of like why it's fun to watch a scary movie in uh in a theater with a big crowd, yep, whereas, like some scary movies, like when I saw immaculate very few of us in the theater early morning and I was with that.
Speaker 2:I thought that that was great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because it kind of helps create that isolating experience. And not that that wouldn't be effective with this story, but this is just kind of one of those for a few of those big, big scenes and some of the jump scares, they're just. It's fun to experience it with a large group of people. You can feel that tension fun to experience it with a large group of people. You can feel that tension.
Speaker 2:Let me just say 2024 for not only whore, which I which I, you are clocked, you clocked it, I clocked that horror is gonna have a big year mac, the maxine trailer just dropped this morning I did not watch it, but it's there now we have a release date july 5th.
Speaker 1:It's coming really, really excited for that. And then just the year in general. I'm telling you, the more I'm, the more I'm looking ahead. I'm like every week we have civil war coming out.
Speaker 2:This weekend going to see it on thursday, if you want to come challengers is a couple of weeks out.
Speaker 1:Yep, now we have release dates for things like maxine kingdom of the planet of the apes are.
Speaker 2:Are you excited yet Listen, don't no.
Speaker 1:I'm not, and neither are you, I'm still watching the twisters trailer five times a week, of course. So it's 2024 is about to happen in a big way. And the first omen and immaculate back to back like this. We're really, really encouraging signs. So good stuff happening. Good stuff happening in the theaters right now. Great stuff happening next week on the podcast we have our 200th episode. Wow, we got games we're gonna open up the dms this week for for listener questions.
Speaker 1:For the mailbag where do we do this at? Do we see if maybe we can do it at the grand? We want to do it in the comfort of the studio I don't know, yeah, what kind of games are we do? We need other people for games like a board I, because it would be really fun just to serve some stuff up to you maybe we bring tim back in to kind of host, host some games.
Speaker 1:It could be like a little pat sajak, a little alex trebek action here for us I don't know, I, I but. But I'm excited, I'm down.
Speaker 2:I can't believe we've made it 200, that's a huge, huge number and it's so crazy because we do this every week and this is set in stone. Every Monday we get together, we talk film. It's been a ride and a half.
Speaker 1:And to be at 200 is pretty remarkable. I had someone tell me the other day ask me really. I don't even know how to qualify what they said, but they were talking kudos to you first off and I gave credit where credit was due. But I was like, well, that was max's episode the all decade team episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've gotten some good feedback too. I've also gotten some some hate mail and it was like, oh, tell me some hate mail. And it was like, oh, I'm talking about that off mic.
Speaker 1:But it was like I can't believe. You guys are coming up on 200 episodes and you're still finding new things to talk about and new ways to talk about movies new episode topics and formats, and I'm like and there's probably so many more out there that we haven't thought of, Honestly, if this was our full-time job if all of you listeners were Patreon members, and Alex and I could quit our day jobs then.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, we would do it. We would do it with a smile on our face.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:We would give you three episodes a week. It would keep Max having to go from Rome.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The starving artist who's having to go. I don't want to go to Rome.
Speaker 2:I don't want to be a nun.
Speaker 1:So that'll be next week. We're really, really, really really looking forward to that.
Speaker 2:You said you're going to civil war when I'm going thursday night with our, with our good friend andrew.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and kaylee and julia and listen you should come watch it the last time that me, you and andrew saw an alex garland movie in the theaters.
Speaker 2:It was men it's, and I came out of that so pissed off, I know yeah, and then, I think, everyone else kind of came around.
Speaker 1:I hope I'll be happier.
Speaker 2:I think we'll be happier this time, and I did catch.
Speaker 1:here's the tough thing. Here's the tough thing about watching sports and I was trying to be a contributing member of society and of the NCAA and pay attention to your gambling ring and listen. I didn't want to get there double a and pay attention to your gambling ring and listen. I didn't want to get there, but it's tough because you know you see movie trailers when you watch cable tv.
Speaker 1:So I'm watching the women's national championship the other day and all of a sudden a clip for civil war comes on and I didn't know what I was watching at first. And then I see kiki and I see a lot of action and I was like, oh, oh, this looks actually pretty good and it doesn't look like it's going to be garland necessarily directly telling me how mrs dunst might be processing her trauma during this tumultuous time um for the country.
Speaker 2:Yeah I recently saw an interview with garland and he told the cast he had them watch one film in preparation.
Speaker 1:I love when directors say shit like this what did he tell them to watch?
Speaker 2:One film Come and see.
Speaker 1:Oh Jesus.
Speaker 2:So if it is anything like that, and then he went on this huge rant about Apocalypse Now and how Apocalypse Now is not an anti-war movie and it romanticizes war and the military and it's, and it's, it's, you know, it's pro, it's pro-destruction and garbage and blah, blah, blah. Wow. So garland, you know he is, uh he's got his takes he's got his takes he's.
Speaker 1:He may be careful. Coppola is still like live and kicking yeah, megalopolis is coming.
Speaker 2:Some we're gonna we're gonna get a trailer for that soon, is it? Yeah, he just so. Coppola has been going crazy on on social media I've seen someone introduced him to a smartphone because he's just like, oh yeah, the trailer's coming out soon, it's it's nearly finished. It's not my last film I okay, that's the.
Speaker 1:That's the most recent headline I saw.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we'll see man. Hopefully they throw down Coppola and Garland.
Speaker 1:That would be awesome. That's the civil war that I'd pay to go see.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh Okay.
Speaker 1:So in the meantime, follow excuse the intermission on Instagram and the two of us on letterboxd to track what we were watching between shows. We will talk to you next week on excuse the inter, where movies still matter.
