Excuse the Intermission
Alex and Max take you on a journey through film with this discussion podcast about movies.
Excuse the Intermission
Exploring Alien Romulus: Nostalgia, Theories, and Franchise Rankings
Have you ever wondered how the xenomorph from the original "Alien" could still be lurking around? Join us, Alex McCauley and Max Fosberg, as we welcome special guest Derek Schneider for an electrifying breakdown of "Alien Romulus." We share our unfiltered excitement for this new addition helmed by Fede Alvarez, reminisce about the mixed emotions surrounding "Alien: Covenant," and express our hopes for this latest chapter in the franchise. Along with dissecting the film, we also recount some personal highlights such as attending a wedding and local film festivals, and we can't wait to share details about our upcoming live event.
Our conversation spans from the movie's box office triumph to the various theater formats Derek experienced, each offering unique insights into the film's visuals. Together, we explore the 70s-inspired aesthetic and how it pays homage to the original "Alien," while also delving into intriguing theories about xenomorph continuity. Did the alien really survive for 20 years by cocooning into an asteroid? We present compelling evidence and debate the implications for the broader Alien universe. We also shine a light on standout performances, especially those by Kaylee Spainy and David Johnson, whose dynamic interactions bring emotional depth to the storyline.
Of course, no discussion about the Alien franchise would be complete without addressing its thematic layers and iconic moments. We examine the symbolism in "Prometheus" and "Alien: Covenant," and how these elements continue to evolve in "Alien Romulus." From the visceral thrill of facehugger chases to nostalgic nods to past films, we critique and celebrate each entry's unique contributions. We also rank the films, sparking passionate debates and reflecting on the franchise's legacy. This episode is a must-listen for any Alien fan, blending nostalgia with fresh insights and leaving you eager for what's next in the saga.
how's it? I'm alex mccauley and I'm max mossberg, and this is, excuse the intermission a discussion show surrounding face huggers and xenomorphs. Ahead on today's show, max and I will be joined by a special guest to help us to chat about the new film, alien romulus, and then we will do our best to accurately rank each film from perhaps the most iconic sci-fi horror franchise of all time. Those conversations up next after a short break. This episode is presented in partnership with the Gig Harbor Film Festival. The Gig Harbor Film Festival will take place this September 26th through the 29th in beautiful Gig Harbor, washington Hosted at the Galaxy Uptown Theater.
Speaker 2:This year's festival will feature 85 wildly rich films from across an array of genres. This year's festival will showcase five world premieres, one US premiere and 48 Washington State premieres, while also bringing films from 13 different countries to Gig Harbor. The festival opens with the world premiere of the Dogfather, the Legacy of Don James, which chronicles a time in history that changed Washington Husky football forever.
Speaker 1:This year's attendees will enjoy exclusive premiere screenings, Q&A sessions following the film blocks and, for VIP pass holders, an immersive all-access experience, including epic parties and events throughout the four days. Digital programs are available now via the festival's website and for more information on scheduling, VIP passes and general admission tickets, please head over to wwwgigharborfilmcom. You can also follow the festival on Instagram at Gigharbor Film. All right, we're back and delighted to be joined by our resident chess burster expert here on the Chatter Network. Good friend of the podcast filmmaker, Derek Schneider, is back in studio today. How you doing, bud.
Speaker 3:How is it going, guys? Good to be back, good to have you man, it's your area of expertise. Look when this film was announced. I would be lying if I said I wasn't sitting by my phone waiting for this call to come back on the podcast. I felt it coming.
Speaker 2:For sure. Xenomorphs and large lizards, you're the guy to call.
Speaker 1:All right, and then Max swing it over to you. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Good yeah, we're doing great. Sorry I caught you in the middle of popping a xenomorph in what they could have done with the marketing there Amazing.
Speaker 1:Break from school still correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we're still on a break and working up there three days a week, which is great. We had our good friend and Patreon subscribers wedding this past weekend.
Speaker 1:Ryan.
Speaker 2:Sandberg. Shout out to the newly.
Speaker 1:Mr and Mrs Sandberg.
Speaker 2:Had an excellent time up north in Snohomish Long weekend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were highly involved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, closed it out with some acid, some acid blood all over me. Oh, I was going to say, wait a minute, I left the party too early, I guess Sheesh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was great. Not a whole lot of movie talk you hadn't seen. I had already seen the film when we were up there together, but you hadn't seen it, so we haven't talked about this at all. Derek, I've seen your activity on Letterboxd. We'll get to all that, though we still have more to do here kind of around town in the coming weeks that we just want to get out there. We got the Gig Harbor Film Festival. We'll be at that. Tacoma Film Festival is then right around the corner once the Gig Harbor Film Festival concludes. And then, of course, this episode is being released on the day of our live event, which will be at Edison Square.
Speaker 1:Garbage Night hosted by Excuse the Intermission. Watching the Crow should be a lot of fun, so please come out tonight to hang with us. Garbage night hosted by excuse the intermission, watching the crow should be a lot of fun, so please come out tonight to hang with us. But okay. So, derek, you are here as obviously a horror fan, but also as a super fan of the alien franchise. The first question that I have for you, and then max as well, is how starved were you for new xenomorph content? And then, how much did you based off of kind of where your hunger was at. How much did you invest in the release of alien romulus uh?
Speaker 3:so for me personally, I was after covenant came out and you kind of got the uh, the xenomorph at the end of that film, just that one little one, and it's like, okay, so ridley scott's back in the seat, he's, he's showing us the aliens, like what, what's next? And you know, there's obviously that long period in between that one and uh, romulus here. When romulus was announced I was like okay, cool, like let's see what develops here and everything. When I saw Fede Alvarez, you know, getting into the director's seat, I was like let's go.
Speaker 1:He's one of your guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's done very, very good. We've covered both of his or yeah, I guess we kind of did. We did a Hugor at best on the evil dead on the evil dead movies. I don't think we've done a full like deep dive on the on freddie alvarez's remake that's pretty good.
Speaker 1:You got out of the shallow end you guys, you guys went into it.
Speaker 3:That was a really good episode, yeah uh, but we also covered don't breathe on on the podcast before, so we are familiar with his, with his work. We've enjoyed, uh, his work. So I was very excited to see what he did with this um, especially taking something, seeing seeing how much he takes care of a beloved ip. So, like with the evil dead, like that's a big undertaking. That was his uh, that was his first feature too. Uh was doing the evil dead remake in 2013 and taking something that cherished by horror fans and to do what he did with it and to elevate it uh, yeah, just amazing stuff. So I was super stoked when I saw that he was going to be directing romulus and I just completely like went on a on a fast of of alien content. After that I I didn't, I saw, I watched the teaser.
Speaker 1:I remember you telling me release the teaser. You texted me and you were like I broke. I watched the, I watched the teaser. I was like I'm going to give myself this because the teaser because I've.
Speaker 3:What I found now lately with movies is the teasers are kind of what trailers used to be, what the teasers are now, like sort of you're, if you want to see, like get the vibe of a film, but not you know, see all the best parts of the film, watch the teaser trailer. So that's what I did and I was like I've seen enough, like I'm sold ticket opening night, uh, and yeah, I didn't watch any trailers after that. I avoided them on YouTube In the theaters, like plug my ears, close my eyes. Yeah, just love it.
Speaker 1:It was such a move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're starting a covenant. It's our patented move.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 1:All right, max. Same question to you how ready were you for new Xenomorph content? Do you think we needed it?
Speaker 2:And then, once you saw that it was coming where, where were your hype levels at? Uh, yeah, I think, I think I'm always a little star for, for alien content. I really, really cherish this. This franchise and each of the movies are just so unique and so different. Um, you know, it is really interesting. I can't believe it's been seven years since covenant 2017, um, so that, even though you know I say I'm starved, I I had no idea it was that long, didn't feel that long, I guess. Um, and now, you know, even though now I'm, I'm a little worried because we're getting a TV show next year, I think I, with with what the um, you know, the box office looks like so far from this movie and because of where?
Speaker 1:20th century is now uh under the mouse.
Speaker 2:I'm a little worried. We might, you know, they might gouge uh, this, this franchise, to death like they have so many others. Um, so you know they might gouge this franchise to death like they have so many others. So you know, I don't know, alien's always been a really, really good. I feel like at like, just kind of like always being around.
Speaker 2:But it is such like, I don't know, kind of on a pedestal that you know we don't need a movie every two years, right, you know, say that right now we don't kind of on a pedestal that you know we don't need a movie every two years, right, you know, say that right now we don't. And and the movies are all, all the movies, especially going back uh this past week and kind of examining some of the scenes and whatnot all the movies are so rewatchable, you know that, and they're so enjoyable to watch that you know we we don't need to go on a huge gluttony of alien content. So, um, I was super stoked uh to see it. Freddy alvarez, as derrick was saying, I, I think, is one of the um he, he is a excellent uh craftsman of of filmmaking and especially in the horror genre. Obviously that's his, his, his wheelhouse um, and I I love that he got this opportunity.
Speaker 3:He obviously is a gigantic fan, uh, which I you know we'll get into once we get into the movie I was watching some behind the scenes like interviews with the cast and everything, and a consensus thing that I heard in a lot of those people's interviews was just how knowledgeable he was about this universe like you, for even from the like uh effects guys that worked on the original films that he brought back, yeah, to be a part of this, like they were talking about.
Speaker 2:You know, like it kind of blew us away, like how you know how much care he has yeah that's really cool yeah, yeah and and you know, and that can get a little dangerous too when you're too like close to the, to the, the love of, of of the thing you're making, um, which you know again, we'll talk about down the road here. But yeah, uh, I was was stoked, I was very stoked. I mean an august release. You know the red and black poster. We've had good, really a really good run of red and black posters this year red and black.
Speaker 1:Obviously in studio here we love the color palette, uh so, yes, I was, I was very, very excited for this film I, I agree with both of you where I'm always ready for more content, but I also I, I I was kind of asking myself like is this a chicken before the egg kind of situation when it comes to anticipation and and excitement. Like was did I? Did I feel satisfied before knowing that this movie came out, or did I only feel satisfied after I knew this movie came out? Right, because it's like I loveheus and I love Alien Covenant unapologetically and have always defended those movies to anybody who might have something to say about them, and so that's never wavered. But it's like, did I want more from that universe? And was it not until I knew something else was coming to, where I was like, yes, I do. So it's just been this weird kind of like in between ground where I'm in limbo thinking like, okay, I'm a little nervous but I'm also really excited because of what the two of you have said.
Speaker 1:Like Fetty is great at revitalizing sacred, hollowed ground within the horror genre, but also he is full send, full tilt at all times. And what does that do to a franchise that I love but also have my own issues with when it comes to how sometimes the xenomorphs are portrayed? Like I love the terror of the first one and I don't respond so much to the blockbuster action of the sequel. And so a little bit of me was like how much am I going to get of James Cameron's aliens and how much am I going to get of Ridley Scott's aliens? And then what does that do to my appreciation of Prometheus and Covenant? It's obviously going to up it. But then when I heard Ridley Scott giving his blessing and seeing him as an executive producer on this film with walter hill and knowing that like this is, this is a collaborative team, like building, not experiment but exercise where they were all coming together to kind of give fans of every different era of the aliens franchise something to love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every alien movie so, ultimately, I I think that, yes, having it be so long since covenant in 2017, this felt like the right time, and and also, too, we talked about this on last week's episode, max and I did derek.
Speaker 1:But coming up, the disney, marvel animated juggernaut that is just like studio IP filmmaking big tentpole stuff is going to start to feel so shallow, and so the fact that this comes out before all of that and it's not like, oh, we're getting another alien year in the same year that we're getting the sequel to five other movies, that just feel really empty. I appreciate that, because this kind of feels like, within a summer of really good horror films that have mostly been original, this is kind of the one tentpole one that we can like hang our hat on and not really feel too like manipulated by, I guess, even though within the film itself, there are a lot of like, there's a little bit of fan service and we can get to all of that, but I I was in and like derrick their day one, I think. Have we both seen it twice, correct?
Speaker 3:I've seen it three times, you've seen it three times now.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I've seen it twice, was not expecting that reaction after. Um, you know that's the first. I mean like that's just the first time I've seen a movie twice in theaters this year, and so the fact that it was for this one, I was like, okay, okay, this movie did its job. I was really excited about that. Okay, so let's kind of set the table for our discussion surrounding the events that take place in Romulus. So spoiler warning from here on out.
Speaker 1:The movie opened this past weekend and was a huge hit. Max already alluded to the box office success. It grossed over $41.5 million in its opening three-day run, which was good enough for number one at the domestic box office. That dethroned Deadpool and Wolverine, and then, after international markets reported their grosses, the film added another $66.7 million. Good fora worldwide total of $108 million. The film is co-written by the aforementioned Uruguayan filmmaker, freddy Alvarez, and stars Kaylee Spaney, david Johnson and a pretty tight cohort of relatively unknown actors. It currently sits at a 3.7 on letterbox, which does reflect a generally positive reviews. So I will start with you and ask, derek, did you enjoy alien Romulus? Kind of give us the headline of your review and then tell us about your theater going experience.
Speaker 3:I guess your first one, or your second one or your third one, whichever one you know. I took in a variety of theater-going experiences this weekend. So my first viewing, I went with my wife and her parents to the AMC and had my sight set on one of the Facehugger popcorn buckets. Sit on one of the facehugger popcorn buckets, but I realized I should have jumped. I jumped in line opening night to do that because every place was sold out of their uh collector's popcorn buckets doesn't surprise me yeah, I saw some pictures online and I was like I really wish I hadn't missed out.
Speaker 3:But uh, so amc, just regular screen, my, my first night, absolutely enjoyed it. It's like not having like the big xd or imax screen and everything. It really felt a little bit more almost like the original like and especially like the setting too, because the like, how like where the setting is, where this sits in the, in the alien timeline and everything too, I guess it kind of like felt like it fit a little more for me to be in like a smaller theater, smaller screen compared to like the other stuff. But uh, second night saw it in xd in the d-box seats. Uh, that was a fun experience like, especially for you know, a movie with action elements, a lot of moving and shaking in the seat, going on with that. And then third night was at imax with max very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very nice. I I like what you're saying too kind of about, and it's funny that you would bring it up, because I know that there was just a 4k remaster of james cameron's aliens that came out, where he went back and fixed a lot of the graininess and reading just on, like twitter and some instagram clips and stuff people are were like yeah he kind of took out some of the like grittiness that we liked about it and he's like you need to get out of your mom's basement, if that's what you feel about it or whatever.
Speaker 1:But in a much more subdued way. I think that's kind of what you're saying. Is that like when a movie is still just, when it doesn't look like ultra glossy in high def IMAX, yada, yada, yada, yada, all this stuff which is awesome for action filmmaking, of course but when you want it to feel like the original, when you want it to feel like 1979 and this movie is definitely trying to make you feel like you're watching something like the original alien that that works just kind of like any theater is good enough. Yeah, so I like that. Max. You're a theater going experience sounds like you were. So you were imax with dad, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I did the imax, uh, last night and yeah, I mean it was, it was beautiful, uh, this, that's the one thing about this film. It's like if eddie is, you know, and I, his director of photography, his dp is, is escaping his name's, escaping my head. But, um, the look of the film, the atmosphere of the film. It does a lot of things. It reminded me a lot of watching First Omen in theaters, like the close-ups of the faces and sitting on those faces. It felt very 70s.
Speaker 3:Yes, it felt very 70s. Yes, we didn't. So on Silver Screams we didn't get to do our first Omen episode, but we had like watched the film in anticipation of it. That was my first time seeing it and that was one of the things that I want that I was going to bring up in that episode was how some of the shots in that film made me feel like I was watching a film from the 70s.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I like just the camera movement and stuff, like the signature stuff that you see in a lot of those older movies. And in this one it wasn't so much the camera movements but more the setting and like the job, like how good of a job they did building those sets and everything and this thought crossed my mind when I was watching it last night with you was as as cool and like neat, as like super high tech, like you know, invisible screens in like sci-fi movies and stuff are.
Speaker 3:There's just something so cozy about sitting in a cockpit with, like, all the analog buttons and the little beeps and chirps and everything like that. Tvs with the, the type that comes up on screen like just that, like there was something that just felt like I was coming back to, like, coming back home, like almost, and you know, call it my love for the original movies and everything. But yeah, just seeing that and I I think it's like really cool.
Speaker 2:That's the kind of like sci-fi stuff that I really the physicality. You can really feel the physicality while watching this movie, especially on an imax too. I would highly suggest go see it in an IMAX if you can. It is made for that sort of movie. It was shot with IMAX cameras, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean when I was in the theater for the first 90 minutes of the film. I'm asking myself is this my favorite movie of the year, when I was just having such a good time with it? And from the very beginning, like with the credits? The font in which, yeah, they show you kaylee spainey's name. I'm like I see what we're doing here and this is awesome like this is so fun and so I was just grinning ear to ear.
Speaker 1:The reason why I went back to see it twice was because I think that so much of like the effects kind of just washed over me and I didn't really appreciate them in the moment. I was like, was that movie really that like gnarly? Because I was just like having so much fun with it and so I. It was really funny because I sort of just found myself on Saturday morning I already had 10 am tickets, went out, came home, played some pickleball this was just the most like summer day, don't have anything better to do.
Speaker 1:Like could not get away with this if I was in a relationship or had kids or anything like that, it's the end of summer so I was just full send having a day and decided at like seven o'clock after it was all done, um, go back out to the theater see it again for a second time. And then that's when I was like, oh, here's where the blood comes in, here's where the, the um, not even the cgi. There was some cgi that looked pretty good. There was others, others that was, you know, other moments that were a little bit questionable, but all the practical effects, like man, they really nailed it. They really nailed all the stuff, um, that you guys have kind of already alluded to with the setting and all that. But yeah, I mean walking out I was just like that's the top 10 movie of the year for me, right there, if not top five. I think that's like right on the cusp of my top five spot right now. So can't recommend it enough. We'll get into some of the details here, but I think that it's. I'm happy to hear because I've yet to talk to either of you about it that we all really enjoyed it. So that's going to make for a fun conversation here.
Speaker 1:So, going going into the film, we did have sequels, we had spinoff movies. Those kind of all exist in their own timeline and then most recently, most recently, we've had the prequels. So that makes I feel like lineage, a huge part of these films. So I think we kind of need to first talk about assimilation. And how long did it take for you guys to sort of find your footing? How effective do you think the film was at giving you a time and a place to sort of sink into like did did you know that this was going to end up being in between alien and aliens? What did you have to figure out on your own? How well do you think the film kind of communicated time and place to you?
Speaker 3:uh, so opening scene. Uh, you know you're kind of drifting through a debris field and one of the first things you see is the side of the ship with nostromo right written right on the side. So I'm like okay, so we're clearly in some sort of like. We.
Speaker 1:We're not too far removed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not far removed from the first one and you know it picks up this floating space rock and everything and cuts it open and you know you see them carting something away and then you see the separated half which has like the sort of the molded form of a xenomorph, like there.
Speaker 1:So here, let me me. I have a question about that right away, because that helped put me in a time and place, for sure, but then I'm one, so then I'm wondering, do you think I guess this question is for both of you? Do you think that that's? Did they find the alien? Had the alien from the original, like cocooned itself into an asteroid? And that's the alien that they found floating around the Nostromo.
Speaker 3:It is the original that they found.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because Ripley doesn't kill that alien, the first xenomorph at the end of the original. She shoots it out of like the air duct or whatever. It floats off and goes next to the uh, you know the jet propulsion or whatever the engine of the escape pod that she's in. She blasted out into space so that alien could definitely, that xenomorph could still technically be alive. We think that that's. You think that that's that one? Did you read something that tells you that it is that one?
Speaker 3:because uh, so the science officer rook is kind giving the, he sort of explains it through exposition Like they sort of explain how this is the original and they show. They show the harpoon that Ripley had shot through the through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's how she gets it like to the door, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:They show that harpoon in in a shot like when he's showing it hanging from the ceiling. Okay, oh, okay, the one he's showing it hanging from the ceiling. Okay, oh okay, the one that's dangling from the ceiling there underneath, like the burned layers of the ship, and everything. It has the harpoon in it, and that's what rook is saying and sort of. He's sort of okay explaining to them how this thing like the like again going into the perfect organism thing like how these things are able to survive, like with no food, no water, like they just sort of find a way.
Speaker 3:And yeah, so this thing it's not explained how it got cocooned like that, like I don't know if it latched onto an asteroid and space junk just kind of accumulated around it. I think the official like time this takes place is about 20 years after the events of, yes, alien, it's like 20 exactly. So I don't know like how 20 years of space accumulation looks, and apparently it looks like that yes, yeah I.
Speaker 2:I was trying to remember if the nostromo blew up at the end of alien. Uh, because there's a countdown.
Speaker 2:Right, there's the nostromo did it, does it does so she's just in like an escape pod right and and the alien is just floating around. And I understand that, like the alien is the perfect organism, it can adapt to anything and anywhere and all that I did grown a little bit like right off the bat because I was like, oh we, we have to, we have to connect it, like I, I, I went in thinking this was going to be a just a alien universe story, a one-off. I didn't think we were going to touch any of the other movies I I didn't really care where in the timeline it was um.
Speaker 2:You know, I didn't want any legacy characters to show up and I don't know that that first sequence feels like it might've been like tacked on. Like I cause there's no. I mean it would be easy to.
Speaker 1:You're talking about the whole opening credit, the whole open credit sequence feels like maybe that was a reshoot.
Speaker 2:I don't know if this movie went through reshoots, but cause I had read that Fetty had said that like yeah, this is just an, a story about a xenomorph in this universe. It's not, it's not going to be a sequel, prequel anywhere. You know, it's just going to be a one-off, a one shot. And so seeing that and that you know, and I am a very cynical person when it comes to the disney corporation, and that that to me, right off the bat, was just like oh, there's, there's some mouse ears on this thing, like what, if they're trying to like, are they trying to fit it in somewhere is? And then, like the, the news of the tv show, like is it going to be? You know?
Speaker 3:I've heard a lot of like rumbling about sort of retconning timelines now because of where, like when the uh, the tv show is supposedly taking place, like in because the tv show will take place before the events of prometheus and covenant, I believe well, or maybe after.
Speaker 3:I can't, it's gotta be after, but there's an earth, but yeah, there's some controversy as to, like you know, like changing timelines now like you're sort of getting into like the halloween uh territory of like mixing, you know, like branching timelines and stuff like you have rob zombies, michael myers.
Speaker 2:You have this michael myers and the thing is like you don't need to do that that opening sequence, right like you've. As soon as you're on the mining planet, just from the clothing and and the way the world looks you, you can tell that this feels like the alien world. You know, universe, time lapse, time frame of the original alien, because these miners look a lot like our space truckers from the original. And you've got Weyland, you know.
Speaker 1:Weyland-Yutani.
Speaker 2:Yutani logos everywhere We've. You know everyone's talking about the company. I was totally put into like okay, we are somewhere close to that timeframe and yeah, and so I don't know if we want to like get into science officer Rook and that yet we'll get to our characters okay, and who we felt shined and maybe who didn't.
Speaker 1:But just as far as, like, the timeline goes, I I think that if you're going to introduce an alien and knowing that freddy was working so closely with ridley, I think it would have been a little strange if there was this mission to go out onto this abandoned space station and there were just aliens on it. We kind of need to figure out how the aliens get there. And I know you're not saying that you would have just wanted that and so then. But then I need, but then I'm asking myself the question like what's the easiest way to do that? Do you try to connect it to the end events of Covenant, when David is leaving in that space jockey and he has all the black goo? Because we do get a connection to this black goo that we see the engineers working with in Prometheus and then whichid ends up taking over in covenant, um, and so it kind of connects both of them in a way, which is good because for the timeline's sake, like continuity is there.
Speaker 1:But but I just it wasn't until the second time that I watched it where I was just kind of like all right, so they, they were, it does just. It just does feel a little bit like we got to throw this in there and we're just kind of doing it haphazardly, we're not really thinking it through too much. It's just like we found a fossilized xenomorph and it's the first one and it's good and there is simplicity behind it. So I appreciate that. But also it just does feel like, again, not everything has to be connected in a way that is so overt, especially, too, when you're going to make some really overly overt connections later on in your film.
Speaker 3:I do kind of see like where this, where that sequence sort of fits in. I I agree with you, max, that it's sort of it almost feels like it's just put in there to placate and to like show, like oh look, we're connected to like the first movie, like this and that, thinking about like what takes place throughout the movie, like you didn't need to get the xenomorph on there to like wreak havoc. You could have had some kind of accident containment breach with any of the number of facehuggers that they have on board there.
Speaker 3:Well, and they have the black goo right, they have the black goo they've been, yeah, cultivating these face huggers, but I will say, like with the motivations of the whalen utani corporation, this, that hunting down that original xenomorph and getting that asset that does that tracks with how much like the focus is, and especially, and it's mostly with the, with the synthetics to like the synthetics are there to you know, serve the corporation and their communication to mother serve the, you know, to push forward Weyland-Yutani's mission movies.
Speaker 3:Their focus is making sure that these specimens are protected, contained, gathered, brought back to you know wherever.
Speaker 1:So while it does seem a little like strange that you know they had to bring this one on, it still kind of tracks with, like the motivations of wayland utani they are sort of this evil empire right and even in blade runner, which is wayland enterprises, same vibes, right, okay, so kind of, once we meet our principal characters and we start to understand their motivations, then we essentially take off on this mission that creates this setting that really overtly feels like a conservative effort to return to the damp, dark, scary confines of a space vessel, as opposed to the settings that we had in Prometheus and in Covenant, which I think Ridley and his DP, darius Wazulski, shot beautifully. Those are much more open and environmental though. So how did you guys kind of respond to the change of scenery? Because I agree, like the industrial world that we were living in, that was really cool, but that's not really where the movie takes place. We're up in just like a tight, closed space. So how do you guys feel that worked? Was that a welcome return for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I loved being on a spaceship, like being on a space station, right, and especially one that is desolate and dark and damp, as you were saying that, that that really itched a scratch for me, like going back to scratched an itch. Itched a scratch, scratched an itch, uh for me, that you know, going back to the original alien, yeah, um, so I loved being back on a, a vessel as opposed to a world, uh, and that's really what I feel like allowed, like what I had written down here was that's what allowed for that vintage production design, that you guys are talking about?
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean down to the, the spiral doors literally dude the supercomputers, like the remote access doors, airlock systems, everything that you have to like manually access and turn on elevators, like all of that stuff, the science labs like it was great the graphics on the screen and stuff are like very reminiscent, like same stuff that you saw in the original alien, same sounds yeah, the sounds they again.
Speaker 1:They did such a good job of bringing us back into that part of the timeline and it gave it gave us this environment where you you really felt like a xenomorph, could be hiding around any corner, whereas like in prometheus and in covenant, because the xenomorph it's, it's like I. The reason why I love those movies is that because the xenomorph and whatever is really happening, because we don't even really get a xenomorph until covenant right and so in those movies the real antagonist is david in ai yeah and I.
Speaker 1:That's a whole nother thing that we'll get into here later, but so this really felt like, uh, an effort to return to like this. Like the, the original alien is a slasher, and so this felt like a return to that where, like fetty's, trying to make this movie scary, and how do I do that I? I make the xenomorph jason vorhees or I make him michael myers and I'm, and it's going to be hiding around any corner and you're going to have these little things. You're going to have the face huggers. Face huggers are always kind of like there's always. It's so funny too, because, like the face huggers.
Speaker 2:I'm like way more scared of face huggers than I am the xenomorph.
Speaker 1:A fast face hugger is like a fear that I did not have, like that was not, had not been unlocked yet for me. Yet Cause we've, and we've seen the neomorphs in uh covenant yeah and and kind of the tall grass scene in that movie that just is so freaking awesome. But again they have this like jurassic park, velocir s velociraptor-esque quality about them in this movie, where, like they're hunting in packs and they are just like unstoppable I was like.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say like this is the first time that we've had like a mass face hugger scene, like a swarm of face huggers, like because we've gotten that with.
Speaker 3:You know the aliens and aliens like the xenomorphs, the packs of them, the hordes, um, but we've never had like, I think, like the closest thing we ever had was I think it was alien resurrection, I want to say when they come up from the water and it's sort of like they had set the egg trap, but you still don't see a lot of like face huggers in that scene. This is the first time we've seen like face huggers, like swarming and chasing, and I loved those two scenes that you got with those little packs of face huggers. It was great.
Speaker 2:When they get into the cryo lab, to like, yeah, to like the chase of all these face huggers, you know, and like holding the door open.
Speaker 1:So good some of my favorite sequencing I've seen this year like so good and those were some behind the scenes clips. I know derek did it. Maybe you had watched him or you hadn't watched him, you just knew they existed. But you and I talked about him and you were like they're going animatronic, like these things are not cg because I had seen something posted from, uh someone on instagram.
Speaker 3:They posted a little bts clip of them playing with a little remote control like a face hugger that was screaming around um, yeah, I loved, I love those two chase scenes with the face, especially the one that kind of like gives the nod to jurassic park a little bit with the little flare, when he throws the flare off to the side and they go after that one really good, um, okay.
Speaker 3:So anything else, it's kind of about the setting that you guys want to touch on, uh uh, I don't, so I don't know if it's so much setting like I, I I picked up on lots of little things throughout this, throughout this film and I don't know. I know you gave me the outline so I was trying to figure out like where to fit in this part of the conversation but and I guess, like setting sort of takes like part of it. I love the little bits of each of these films in the franchise that they put in.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great time to talk about there's there's so many like nods to the other films in this franchise.
Speaker 3:Uh, the nod alert would be going off if we were on silver screams right now. Uh, I mean starting from the beginning, like the, the engineers, so in the end, like the final creature that we see in this film we've already given the spoiler warning. So the, the final creature, the baby, um, terrifying, terrifying, uh touches on the alien resurrection and the end, sort of the engineers, sort of a combined, you know nod to that movie, like the, the baby creature, uh, sigourney's baby from uh alien resurrection and has sort of the face of the engineers like and really tall, just like the engineers are, and everything very unsettling, like I, I got goosebumps when when that first reveal scene when david sort of like steps aside and you see it like just sort of crouched there in the in the hallway. Yes, um, you have like the, uh, the little dippy bird, uh, that's been in you know a few of the movies, so it first appeared in the original alien and then again in covenant, um, and then here when uh rain and they're like first conversation rain.
Speaker 3:In the end you're sitting at the lunch table, uh, I mean you have like sort of the, the setting itself, like the, the mining colony, uh, and the swarm, the swarms of xenomorphs we see at the end, so that sort of harkens to aliens well, in the mining colony, that industrial life, I feel like it was a huge nod to three and yes, kind of the prison, those guys, the prison colony, yeah that was my next one was sort of that sort of feeling of being a prisoner because the the mining colony part, like to me, said aliens, and then what happens to rain?
Speaker 3:when her permit to like leave the planet after she's served her amount of hours denied is denied, and so that to me sort of felt like you know, like locked in prison yeah, like uh, yeah, and then, like I said, resurrection with a little baby and everything.
Speaker 1:So yeah, like do we think a little. Do we think that there's some people out there who have totally beat the system that, like you know, instead of like investing in mac in 1986, they invested in waylon yutani?
Speaker 3:in in 2020 or something like during blade runner, and they're just good. They don't got to worry about xenomorphs now because gosh, I was thinking.
Speaker 1:I was thinking like what's the good life like?
Speaker 3:in these alien movies.
Speaker 1:No one seems to be living the good life.
Speaker 3:Everyone is struggling. It's a tough thing. I guess it's only if you work for the company.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean you sort of see in Covenant the ship that they're the quarters that Waylon's daughter is right, you know living in right, oh, um, and prometheus charlie's there that was in prometheus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was yeah, yeah, uh anything else about just kind of setting the vibes?
Speaker 2:yeah, the setting, the vibes, and kind of touch on some of these, the not, you know, the knots.
Speaker 1:You ordered your. I saw reebok and romulus came out with a collab kaylee spainy going down the ladder with those shoes. I was like man, those are bad.
Speaker 2:I feel like the Derek said the not alert machine would be going off. It would probably be broken in this movie For real.
Speaker 3:You're smacking that button. I know I'm not even touching on like the actual, like Characters, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like the actual like lines of dialogue, or the fact that it ends with an elevator or there's a set piece with an elevator. And so I am really torn with this movie, because I love where it's going, right From on the mining planet to then the cryo lab with the face huggers, the chase, and I think the biggest, like the biggest, most spoilery thing is the deep fake of Ian Holm as a science officer, which I understand. Like you know, they did it with David and Walter in Covenant and Prometheus, right, and so it's the same model.
Speaker 3:Right yeah, so that's sort of been the recurring thing. Is that like it's?
Speaker 1:the models. There's a make of a synthetic, yeah, and they sort of all have this similar face.
Speaker 2:Similar face. I thought it looked absolutely terrible.
Speaker 1:Well, it's really jarring when you first see it for sure yeah, and, and you just know it's not ian holm one, because you know rip, rip to a great actor, yeah, in home, but also, too, it's like it's got some of that like joe pesci irishman feel to it well, or peter cushing from rogue one like why not just, why not just have a regular actor, like just a different face?
Speaker 2:like we already said, it's 20 years ahead.
Speaker 3:You know, we have another ai, you can even character here who looks completely different you could even do what they did with, um, uh, with the character from alien resurrection, for, uh, the synthetic in that one, and now, like just drawing a blank there on his name?
Speaker 1:uh, it's not bishop, bishop um bishops and aliens, and I think he does come back. He does come back he does.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so it's alien three that uh when they crash. Yeah, because that's when they crash on the prison planet he plays.
Speaker 3:Waylon he's, so he's damaged in that one. And when Ripley goes to like consult with him or like she tries to like fix him, they don't. I remember them talking like I watched a behind the scenes thing. That was like they talked about bringing him back for a scene in that and they were like no, let's just like leave, cause he went through this crash and she's just finding him scrap in a scrap heap, like just leave him as is. So the face was all torn up and everything. It was basically just an animatronic face. I don't know why they didn't do something like that with this, where I mean, clearly he went through an alien attack, because it's only his upper torso that that they're conversing with here.
Speaker 1:Which is also really weird, because the last time we saw Ash he's just decapitated right. So again we have a severed body. Just felt very I don't know.
Speaker 2:There's parts of this film that really feel like a fan film. It really feels or even like and. I don't want to bring the dark cloud over, but like an AI wrote it Like they just took all. They told a computer to write an alien movie, and what AI does is goes out there and grabs a bunch of stuff from all these alien movies and puts it into one. And so when professor or science officer Rook shows up, as a chess player?
Speaker 1:what do you think about the name Rook, by the way, too?
Speaker 2:It's fine. Yeah, it's great, rook, I'm going to name my first child that.
Speaker 3:What is the Rook's moving ability? Is it just like straightforward and sideways right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, it's the castle right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, rooks are the ones that can just go straight forward.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah yeah, it's the castle right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Rooks are the ones that can just
Speaker 2:go straight forward. You're our resident chess expert. I'm not good, obviously.
Speaker 1:I wonder if that's like a nod to like there's no way they randomly named him Rook.
Speaker 3:Moving the company forward.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, that's his only directive.
Speaker 2:It just gets a little self-indulgent. I mean like why, why?
Speaker 1:Why do we need all these? Let me let me tell you why. Here's why it's because nobody outside of the three of us in this room, and maybe a dozen other people out there, enjoy prometheus and especially covenant. Because when we did not, people just did not appreciate everyone. Because this is the problem, I know you. This is not directed at the two of you.
Speaker 1:But when Ridley actually gave us something extremely thought-provoking, original and detached from just like xenomorph versus human action which is what everybody wants, because everyone loves aliens and gives us this like examination of Christianity and religion and mankind's obsession with destruction and creation, and like those movies are prometheus and covenant are maybe the most rewatched, the most rewatched movies for me, like of the 21st century. They are up there. No one else feels that way, and so for this movie to do as well it's as it's done at the box office and for people to be like, yeah, this is really fun, and like da, da da, this happens, and like it's stirring up controversy at the very least you do that by I hate to say it, but making this like what we just saw with gambit and all these other people coming back and you're bringing back these legacy characters or people who you thought were gone
Speaker 1:and written off and again, they don't put that in the trailer, so you're not going for that. But then once you get it and you write in lines like stay away from her, you bitch, and people and I had someone in my theater laughed and then it took that person laughing for me to realize like, oh yeah, that was like that's a callback, right there, you know. So it takes all those little things to kind of get your movie going, I guess. But like the audience, as you can see, is already there for this movie.
Speaker 2:So so why do those things? It just feels way too much in this movie and especially in that second half. I mean, I think even when, when ian holm first is revealed, first revealed his face, he's in the dark a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he's in the dark and like I see the blue shirt right and I'm like, oh okay, that's a science officer and you know obviously he's a and the same, make sort of of, and then when the face came on on the screen I I was sitting next to derek and I think he heard me.
Speaker 3:I just go. Yeah, you know what's funny is like, because I had seen it twice at that point when I went to see it with you and I was waiting to see what your reaction was gonna be.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, I remember hearing you make the horse noise yeah, and I and I feel like, from that moment on, and again I, I don't know what, what fetty, or I don't know if fetty wrote this by himself, I don't know it was co-written, but then who else had say over yeah, I don't know if ridley came in and was, like we have to put this character in, you got to make the baby look like an engineer. I just it does feel like a blender of just nostalgic bait.
Speaker 3:I don't think it bothered me so for me the baby engineer connection like comes more from the, the serum itself exactly so it's a distilled thing, so it's sort of chain and it rook talks about this, yeah, how it changes you at a molecular level at your dna, like that's what it changes.
Speaker 1:He's trying to turn humans into some sort of superhuman being that can work in these coal mines and they can never get sick and yada, yada, yada so it being from from that, so from the engineers themselves.
Speaker 3:like you know, stealing the fire from the gods is like the Prometheus thing Taking that from them and using it and distilling it and changing it in a way that you know, like we saw in Prometheus, like how when the engineers drink it, they just sort of disintegrate. But, now it's with Rook and the science capabilities and stuff. They've sort of distilled it and turned it into something. It's still not. Still not good, as we saw with the rat.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I feel like not enough people realize saw that moment with the rat right. Where it's on the screen and they're like, oh, it's worked with the rat.
Speaker 3:But then, once everyone's away from the monitor and they're at kind of like yeah, convenient, how rook left that out too. Yeah, explanation, yeah, real, um, anyway, yeah, so it wasn't that to me didn't feel like a fan service or like, uh, like in a like wedged in there like ribly being like prometheus matters maybe it does like it does, it totally does, it totally does however, and again though, that whole sequence is trying to pay homage to the end of aliens right, the?
Speaker 3:I mean you don't know the queens on the ship I started, yeah and like well, I mean it mattered from from the very first movie, even before prometheus was thought of. When you see that ship, when you see the, the space jockey, and everything and you see all of that iconography like from the what became prometheus, but like that was written into the first movie. That's already lore before prometheus has ever come around so that movie matters from the get-go like yeah, yeah. At the inception of this it just felt.
Speaker 2:It just felt like a lot of it almost felt like they were just throwing up all the ideas I think, with page because, because, even like when they get down to that, that, uh, that walkway that's like cocooned over or whatever, I mean that's very, and then all, and then all of a sudden, there's a whole horde of all aliens, of aliens of xenomorphs here, like I was half.
Speaker 1:I was like oh my god, we're gonna pull out another queen, like another queen's gonna come like it's the part that I, that's the part in the film that I bucked on the hardest yeah, and that's why, like I said at the top, for me the headline is like for 90 minutes this movie rips and then in the back half, all of the fan service starts, started to catch up to me, and that's what stops it from being like a five-star film or an a movie for me is that like it just gets to be too much and it gets to be too much of what I don't like that this franchise does when this tries to turn into an action blockbuster and not a scary movie where, like the beginning of this movie, was a scary movie right, and then it by the end of it.
Speaker 1:It's not until those final 10 minutes and but then it's just like batshit crazy and I don't know if batshit crazy is the same thing as scary. Like I'm definitely not trying to see that human morph anywhere. Yeah, yeah, of course, terrifying this, this, but I'm like amused, it's gone batshit crazy.
Speaker 2:Before resurrection they've got a alien or xenomorph humanoid baby thing going on in there and again, but again that it. It just feels like why can't we just? Why do we have to touch everything? Why do we have to have a big orgy of alien movies in one alien, like, just have an alien movie, just do an alien movie, but then do an alien movie, but then again you know, or take a wild swing. The thing I love about this franchise so much is that each movie is so unique, right, and so like the director who is behind it, it's so their vision, and even bad or good. And then unfortunately Fetty, who I think is a really good director. This doesn't feel like a Fetty movie.
Speaker 1:I mean like how Alien 3 doesn't feel like a Fincher movie. Unless you watch the assembly cut, then it does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but also, though it is very much like that is the Fincher entry and it doesn't feel like any of the other movies. Oh, definitely not like this feel, this doesn't feel. This movie did not feel very unique while watching at least the first. Like 40 minutes are are great, but as soon as rook shows up and then as soon as we start quoting lines from other movies and then bringing in this, you know having what the movie is it's creatively safe because it's all creative, but it's all very safe, yeah do you think, do you think that stuff takes away from or do you think that ruins this movie for people?
Speaker 3:who's this? Who's?
Speaker 2:like alien romulus experience.
Speaker 3:I don't this is their first alien movie and all these like little nods and easter eggs and stuff are laid out there. And for people like us who are very familiar with the franchise and everything we see all that and, like you were saying, like it feels a little shoehorned in in some of these places. Like there's other lines of dialogue too, like the um, I can't lie to you about your odds, but you have have my sympathies. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's another callback line On the video screen.
Speaker 3:Do you think all that stuff that to us looks like shoehorning in and like having to touch that kind of stuff as Easter eggs in this film?
Speaker 2:Do you think that ruins this film for people who's Well? No, because they don't know, right, they don't know it.
Speaker 1:Like honestly, listen, I'm, I am, I am the problem. I get that right, like I. It's also. But it's also the problem that inherently comes with, like whatever this is now, if you're counting alien versus predator movies, like we're north of seven, eight films, nine, that, nine now it just makes this alien movie very mid to me, right like it's, very like in my personal rankings, is smack dab in the middle, like it is, and again, like there are some amazing sequences that I was like.
Speaker 2:I was like, yes, I've never, we've never seen the, the facehugger thing right like the, the group of facehuggers chasing uh people before, and like that was fantastic and it looks great and it sounds great. But man, it, it really I, I really feel like it fumbles and I really feel like fetty, just like I don't know, and again, I don't know what happened behind the scenes, I don't know who's in, who's in control, but like it just either. He, it just really feels like a fan fan film. It feels like something that, like you, would dream up as like a, like a 13 year old boy, and maybe that's the point. I don't know.
Speaker 2:But uh, fetty, being a fan of the franchise, yeah, yeah yeah and like, and maybe that's that was his goal, and if that is, then like he knocked it out of the park. Um, but man, yeah, it, just, it really. It really goes out of its way to let you know that, like I've watched all the movies a hundred times, Okay, so.
Speaker 1:So let's let's talk about some of the the set pieces that we really enjoyed here with this film. Then we'll get into the characters I think done a great job of like, um, existentially kind of breaking down how this movie has made us feel.
Speaker 1:But but kind of, with these confined spaces, everything that was happening with the face, with the face huggers, we got some vintage chest bursting, xenomorph chaos, all that stuff, so kind of once again coming off the last two prequels that we got where it was much more AI focused human beings, as these people who are fascinated with with death and destruction and creation and all of that this. This was definitely not shy about giving audiences just like kind of that, that human alien warfare, which is, I think, what a lot of people like and what they were missing from when it came to those two prequels. So what? What were some of your guys's favorite set pieces? I know we've talked about them a little bit, but this is your chance to really go into a scene and explain sort of what was happening, set the table, who was involved and then what you thought was awesome about it.
Speaker 3:I mean, if I woke up Christmas morning and found a gift-wrapped pulse rifle under my tree.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't be the maddest boy in the world.
Speaker 3:Okay, I thought the pulse rival was like really a really cool like throwback prop, uh for aliens, for yeah, yeah, that was that.
Speaker 1:And so then the acid blood scene when she gets to use it. You were digging that that was.
Speaker 3:That was a cool use and I think I kind of mentioned this to.
Speaker 1:I said this to max when we got out of there uh love the use of uh chekhov's anti-gravity switch there in the beginning of the film, like well, and especially and david as well too, when he walks by the the giant like carabiner hook or whatever, and he pulls on it and the one guy's like don't touch that or whatever, I'm like, well, that's gonna come back and help somebody um, yeah, for like for sets and like action stuff, like like I talked about I loved the david johnson, the actor.
Speaker 3:Yep, andy, your name, andy, yeah, yeah yeah, I loved again the facehugger chase scenes, uh those two that we got, especially like the walking through uh the hallway when they have to be, like you know, quiet dude that's mine has ever played alien isolation yes, no I think there's a sequence kind of like that where you're, you're like slowly walking through a room and there's face huggers everywhere, that I, I just haven't written, I haven't been I actually haven't beaten that game.
Speaker 1:It's a very.
Speaker 3:It's a pretty difficult game. Yeah, um and yeah, I've been slowly like working my way through it and after watching this and again seeing all the little the you know, the retro tech and everything like that it just like clicked in me and I was like I need to go back and like start playing that game again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I have that written down as the temperature. Facehugger, minefield scene where it just feels like they're walking across a minefield of face huggers. And then I love it, because then it starts to intercut. At first I was a little upset. I was like, don't cut away from this like, just let this scene breathe. But then it cuts away and it goes to our two other characters um the cousin this is one of mine and he's cattle prodding the the cocoon, the birth of the xenomorph.
Speaker 3:This is one thing that I really loved, because so good.
Speaker 1:And then you get the screams over the radio and tyler is just like he can't control himself anymore.
Speaker 3:He's talking to his sister and then, and then andy hits us with run, yeah, and I'm like, let's go, let's go, like I don't want to like get you know too granular with this and or like this or delve too deep into the psychology of Geiger and the phallic imagery and stuff of the xenomorphs and stuff. I've got to say it was kind of nice seeing a birth sort of take on everything with the design of the cocoon and sort of the life pod scene at the end, oh for sure, and everything. A lot of traumatic birth imagery.
Speaker 1:Going back to Prometheus, one of the wildest birth scenes maybe ever on screen the cesarean. Oh my gosh Just remarkable.
Speaker 2:I wanted to ask about does the life cycle of the xenomorph seem? Does that seem, did that seem right? Like they the face gets on the face. It seemed very accelerated and like, call it call it.
Speaker 3:You know. You know serving. That's serving the. You know time of the film the timeline of the film and everything, cause they're working up against a 36 hour, 36 hours, which becomes 40 minutes once that you know, the initial ship like crashes back into the space station.
Speaker 3:So working against that, I did pick up on that too, because in the original alien they go to the crash, they find the distress beacon, they go to the crash ship, the facehugger attaches and then like works its magic and then is on his face like when they bring him back to this their ship and like 12 hours and then it falls off. Yeah, and then it falls off on its own and he's fine for, like another, you know, few hours and stuff, and then at the breakfast table yeah the chestburster scene happens.
Speaker 1:We don't see anything for a little bit and I think again another, not alert, though they find I think it's the virginia cart right. I think that finds kind of yeah the shed used condom looking like skin.
Speaker 3:Again you get that scene and I feel I feel from that part to the xenomorph is I I don't know like what the timeline was in the original alien, but that one did seem very like in the original. It even seemed very quick that it went from little you know worm thing to you know xenomorph it feels more like the rate of growth that the neomorphs have in covenant.
Speaker 1:Because you think about that exhilarating scene in the first half of that film where it's a backburster right it comes out and it's this tiny little thing the size of like a house cat. And then 15 minutes, where it's a backburster right, it comes out and it's this tiny little thing the size of like a house cat and then 15 minutes later it's running through the tall grass and leaping and jumping and it's almost like human size um different creatures. Right, but so and again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like it shouldn't be that fast. Different formations too, and everything, because those original ones bursting out of the eggs and everything. Maybe it's different because it's, you know, a contained like face hugger um, and I will say this face hugger.
Speaker 1:This was on my second watch. This was the first time where I was like, okay, fetty, there's, there's the, the gross, the sicko fetty, that that I know and love is the real up close shot of the face hugger after the tail has been frozen and the face hugger then releases the, the choke hold that it has, and the tube, the, the I don't even know what you want to call it Insane.
Speaker 2:I want to know how they did that it pulls out of that woman's mouth is like incredible stuff so good, so good.
Speaker 3:You even kind of get like a brief moment of that too in the initial attack scene in the cryo room, when it attaches to Tyler's face. It's trying to get it in it kind of gets it in, but he manages to fight it off.
Speaker 1:Wildly fun, gross stuff.
Speaker 2:That's wildly fun gross stuff. Okay, that's. My favorite set piece is the is the cryo, the, the, the thawing of the face huggers they're in the water dude.
Speaker 3:The the ticking, the ticking clock on that scene was just. It had me so like nervous when you see the temperature starting to rise great and as they pull out the other fuel cell, it starts to rise even more rapidly into the water, yeah, really fun.
Speaker 1:Um, and and there's something too about making a face hugger a little bit more vulnerable, I guess, than like a full xenomorph, where in like and we'll get, I will at least get to what I don't like about aliens. But like when you can just like beat off some face huggers with one of these, like electric prods or whatever, you can pull them off, you can throw them, you can kick them feels a little bit more manageable than just being able to like shoot your way through a horde of xenomorphs when, like the first time we've ever met a xenomorph, it's this perfect, unkillable organism and all that stuff get into that. But I thought that was a really well done part about this film is to feature the face huggers during that first half as as kind of like these little pawns, right, that like yes, they are deadly, but also like they can be fought off and they can create really fun chase scenes and stuff like this. Um, okay, so I mean we've mentioned some of the actors already, but we haven't really dove into them.
Speaker 1:I don't really know if you guys want to get into the plot. I know we've spoiled a lot, but we haven't really kind of like talked about what happens in this movie other than really the set pieces. So I'm wondering if there's just like kind of one or two scenes that really registered for you guys on an emotional level, sort of because of the performances, um. And I think it's also a good time to talk about the ensemble in general, because although this film I think is is, it's definitely lacking the star power that prometheus and covenant had. Those films are like that's a mlb batting lineup right there. Those films are like eight, nine, ten superstar actors deep. Um. This one's it's much more tight, it's confined, but personally I thought that like a limited cast, like that kind of allowed for some real investment, at least within our two leads yeah kaylee spainy character and david johnson's character um andy and rain.
Speaker 1:So so how did how did those two work for you? Was there a scene or two in particular that that you really liked?
Speaker 2:yeah, I, I think kaylee spainy, I mean I I think she's got it, I mean she's she's having a huge calendar year right going back to priscilla civil war is. You know, I loved her in that. I I think she is probably the, if not the best performer in this, the second best performer because, honestly, david johnson does an amazing job as a synthetic and it's so interesting that Like two different synthetics, yeah Right, and like switching back and forth.
Speaker 2:And it's so interesting that usually the synthetic in these films is like the standout of the cast. True, yeah, but he does a lot of amazing like little ticks and whatnot, to uh to really bring that character to life.
Speaker 1:The scene that with kaylee uh is like when he won't open the door for the pregnant friend I said when andy doesn't open the door for k tyler's sister and rain asks him what his primary, primary directive is, I mean great stuff.
Speaker 2:She is, yeah, she's just on another level.
Speaker 1:That's such a good scene.
Speaker 2:She's so good and not even saying much.
Speaker 1:No yeah.
Speaker 3:That, that scene, but like the moment in that scene for me was the slap, like when she turns around and is just so taken aback, that like how could you do this? And that was like the reaction and you see it in her, her reaction to her action too is that she's in. She instantly like covers her mouth and it's like I can't believe I just did that. But I can't believe you just did that or didn't do that, in this case, didn't open the door for for k, right, I think.
Speaker 1:Right after that, then they get on an elevator or they're in another airlock chamber together something, and she's still like I can't believe you did that, like she's still not over it, right, and I'm like that's such a human thing, like what?
Speaker 3:leave somebody, leave somebody behind, and yeah and then it's the, the cold rationale after he gets that, that whaling yutani, like you know, the science officer, chip like that, cold calculating, like I mean it's, it's simple, like you know, sacrifice one. You know you lose one person, but you know, the rest of us. If I had opened that door, the rest of us would have died and I wouldn't be able to complete my directive.
Speaker 2:So and you know I've read a lot of criticism that like, oh well, they don't do any character development for the rest of the crew and like I mean as soon as they show up, I know like they're all, they're all dead, they're all alien fodder and the fact that they're young people that they're. A lot of people have been calling them the Gen Z crew.
Speaker 1:Relatively unknown actors kind of.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't, we don't need to get to know them, because they're not going to last against a fucking xenomorph Colonial Marines couldn't.
Speaker 3:Was it just me, or did they just sort of like? Did they feel like they belonged together? Like the way that they interacted with each other and stuff? It felt like a tight-knit group. It wasn't just some. Like you know, I've pulled all these people like tyler pulled all these people from separate facets of his life together to like assemble this group of you know people no, I mean I bought them as friends.
Speaker 1:I bought them they all kind of, you know, they're sort of these like they're the lost orphans of of the fallout that comes with having your parents and generations of workers under the whalen yutani thumb, and so I I bought that.
Speaker 3:I was like I can see they went away out in the trailer you see the pictures on the wall and stuff, and I guess this isn't covered. I don't think it's ever exposed in the movie or whatever. But one thing that I kind of wondered, and like seeing it three times helped with like picking up on this too the interaction. So when k reveals to rain that she's pregnant and she doesn't know who the father is, she's just some asshole. Later on, at the birth of the xenomorph scene, when Kay and Bjorn are on the ship together and they're about to walk by there, they have that kind of moment where they are looking into each other's eyes.
Speaker 1:I know, I noticed this as well, and that's so weird because they would be their cousins though, because Bjorn is Tyler's cousin.
Speaker 3:Bjorn is Tyler's cousin, yeah that's true, but I thought about that too where I was like that's a really odd long, lingering loving stare.
Speaker 1:But then again I'm like well, okay, maybe it's just because they're cousins though no, they're friends yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, because I thought of it too and then I had to check myself on that thought as well. That's a nod to HR Giger.
Speaker 3:I mean, that was just me trying to piece all this together too, and because I think it was part of it was because I was trying to figure out what I think Bjorn and Navarro might have been like a couple or something.
Speaker 1:Because Navarro's never really explained. I think the father of the child's freaking dirk novinsky, yeah, anyways, yeah, trying to get him on the pickleball court put a paddle in his hand.
Speaker 3:I need a doubles partner back to the back to like the characters and stuff themselves like I was saying, like that scene with the slap. That was definitely and Kaylee Spaney. But also the thing that I love about Andy's character too is the conflict that it creates within you as the viewer Watching him, because you're building all the first act, buildup and everything is sympathy for Andy Because of how he's obviously not like a fully functioning synthetic malfunctioning, you learn that she's not going to be able to take him to you.
Speaker 1:Vibra or whatever this new kind of utopia planet is that they're going to um?
Speaker 3:yeah. So everything like leading up to the, the swapping of the chips, is like building sympathy for andy. So when that switch happens, you, you as the audience member, the viewer, are sitting there watching, like open the door Andy, open the door, andy. And then, when he doesn't, you're like how could you do that? Like you are right there with with rain, like how could you do something like that?
Speaker 2:And I think that's absolutely wonderful, like the writing, like the writing and the acting like combined everything about it just makes it so wonderful. I really wanted one more sequence on the mining planet showing them stealing the ship, because I'm guessing they had to steal that ship yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's theirs, I think it's the ship that we first see Tyler standing like at the hatch of. He's like hey, I'll be right down Like he had just gotten back.
Speaker 2:So is the only problem that they can't travel nine light years like they can't go into like cry of sleep, because because they didn't like I, I, I, for I get what you're saying because there's no like security. No one has to clear these flights yeah, there's no, like air traffic control yeah, that was one thing I did was, and they even say like we're about to break through the breach or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like no one's tracking you and it's like it's just a cloud or a storm or something Like which you know, yeah, mother Nature is no good, no, yeah.
Speaker 2:But still, yeah, I kind of was hoping that they were going to have to like this ragtag team like, oh, we got to steal this ship and then we gotta maybe like evade some 100 mining people, or I thought.
Speaker 1:I thought they got off the planet too easy yeah yeah, it's still made for a cool scene. Um, and I also, I like the one guy I like, I like bjorn standing up and like lighten the joint ripping it all in one, in one toke, or whatever, because I was like, okay, this is again, this is, yeah, the, the zoomer version of like what harry dean stanton and yafut koto would be doing in the original one.
Speaker 3:They'd be like shotgunning beers or something you know, like smoking a whole pack of cigarettes at once, or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, so, so I did, I did like that, but but I do agree that I I was, I was in on them as a team, but I was like they got here a little too early or a little too easy, like kind of, how did that happen? But man, kaylee Spaney, just for someone who is so I mean this in the most respectful way, for someone who is so like plain looking, she is also so captivating to watch. Like her micro expressions that was something that I noticed a ton in civil war was just like the small little nuances and the non-verbal acting that she can do with her face and her eyes and her mouth. Like she's mousy, but in the most, like you know, like sometimes I watch her and I'm like, am I watching like millie bobby brown or am I watching like audrey hepburn? Like it's so her face is so interesting to look, watching like Audrey Hepburn, like it's so her face is so interesting to look at. And so I loved the different range that she showed in this movie. I thought she was, I thought she was awesome.
Speaker 1:And then David Johnson again. It is really funny how, going back to Fassbender, going all the way back to Ian Holm in the original, the way that the, the synthetics really do kind of like steal the show and it is. I mean it's really hard. Right, it's hard to play non-human. It's a good challenge for any actor, so I really do appreciate that. Okay, any final thoughts on Romulus. I mean we're going to jump over to our franchise rankings and then I guess, if anything else kind of comes to mind, we'll have the chance to sort of circle back as we fit them into the rankings. But any, any last words you guys want to get out?
Speaker 2:right now, what? What do you guys want or hope for this franchise going forward?
Speaker 1:yeah, so it's, it's tough, right, because I certainly don't want alien versus predator requiem, or maybe I do just done a lot better, like done a lot better.
Speaker 1:I can't remember who he's who like there were bits about, uh, freddie alvarez talking with another director about teaming up for another alien verse, predator movie really interesting I I don't know how serious like this or if it was just like an in-passing kind of thing, like from an interview I mean, I definitely don't want like the cross the cross monster universe aspect of it, but I I would, I guess, like to see because, right, we haven't been on earth, the only time we've ever really been on earth.
Speaker 3:In these movies is at the beginning of prometheus, when they're in the caves and they find the paintings in the actual alien movies in the alien movies, yeah right, and the avp movies, obviously right, yeah, but and that's where I'm like.
Speaker 1:Is that what I want? Is that? What I want out of them, do I want us exploring underground pyramids in antarctica and we're made by.
Speaker 3:I don't want that, that's just.
Speaker 1:Those timelines are so funky. Um, so I'm not sure, I really don't know, because I do not. What I don't want is more aliens esque content, where it's like the military versus xenomorphs. But it'd be really weird to have like an intimate personal, like family drama mixed into some sort of like invasion plot line.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, that's a good question yeah, I, I have no idea and this is this is kind of why I wanted this to stay away from any touching any other of the films or like even being you know in it's in this timeline, um, because, yeah, I, I don't know where you go after this unless it is like a big war movie.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't know. I think you could follow something like what happened with David at the end of Covenant, because he's the one who sneaks on to like the.
Speaker 2:you have that entire colony like of of people, like where they were going, like yeah, but I I think if they were gonna do that, oh his, it would have been this movie to do that, right, like well ridley had a third film and just yeah, because of the results of covenant, because of those movies being maybe this, maybe this one changes that, though, maybe this is, maybe this is that stepping stone to get they say let's go back and see what you had. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would love that, but I don't. That's where I'm a cynic. I doubt that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, it's going to be really interesting. This TV show has me really worried, because I thought this was going to be a TV show and then they changed it to a movie.
Speaker 3:Well, it was supposed to be a straight to streamer, straight to streamer. And this was supposed to go right to Hulu.
Speaker 2:So glad it came out in theaters Um, but yeah, I don't know I I. Did you ever watch the Godzilla show that Apple did?
Speaker 3:Uh, uh oh, monarch, legacy of monsters. Yeah, I mean it's. I don't watch a bunch of TV like or at least like streaming, like episodic stuff.
Speaker 3:I tend to gravitate towards movies. I just there's just something about like stretching out like these storylines and stuff. There's some that like it works really really well for, but other stuff, stuff it just feels like. It feels like they have to like inject too much drama into every single episode to make it compelling and like watchable and stuff it's. It's hard for me to describe because I'm not trying to like shit on it.
Speaker 3:I enjoyed the series very much but it didn't feel like there were parts of it that felt cinematic and felt like big because of like where technology is now TV and movies are, the line is like constantly blurring. I mean, the only thing that separates the two is like you know you're watching episodes of something as opposed to like one two hour movie. But there's just still things that just feel like it's it's separate from a movie. It doesn't feel like I'm watching like I I find it harder to lose myself in like episodic kind of stuff. Yeah, but I again not shitting on it. I enjoyed, I enjoyed. It just wasn't. I guess. Like if I had to put it I would.
Speaker 2:But does it fit like in the godzilla, like was it good for godzilla?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think especially like with what they're doing with the monster verse.
Speaker 1:Okay, so here's here's when alien earth is going to take place. Alien earth is going to take place in the year 2092, which is one year before the events of prometheus okay so at the end.
Speaker 1:So this is where it gets really tricky, because at the end of prometheus you get this, this alien queen that comes out of the engineer, right, it's not a full xenomorph really it is, but it's like a I don't know. It's like, looks different, looks different it does. It's not until the end of covenant, when billy crud up gets the face hugger. That's where the first xenomorph comes from. And then david goes off and does his thing. And then the events of the very first ridley scott alien, when they find that space jockey crashed on whatever that planet is, that's, that's the ship. So if you have alien earth one year before prometheus, you this shouldn't have xenomorphs in it timeline wise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it kind of can't right. So how do you, how do you do an alien tv show without xenomorphs? Are people going to watch that? Are people going to look at this and be like you can't have xenomorphs in this, I'm not going to watch? Yeah, or you're going to put xenomorphs in and just buck the the timeline yeah and doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know. Did we ever here's another question I just thought of did we ever get a question or an answer to why in covenant the chestburster is a little mini xenomorph as opposed to the worm thing?
Speaker 1:like it comes out, when it's like dapping up it's kind of like dancing with david no I?
Speaker 3:I don't think we do I think that's uh sort of just like the, the genetic modification kind of thing. That's that's taking place there, yeah, because he's I mean, he's working with like the previous iterations of these things, so like, yeah, the neomorphs are like the last thing that we saw.
Speaker 3:So then he like takes that and forms the egg and something to pass that on to like and the alien that comes out of the engineer at the end of covenant is like full grown yeah it's big, it's all funky it's not even like one of the neomorphs either, because it's not it has like the elongated head and everything but, and then it's got the second jaw that pops out.
Speaker 1:It's an incredible post-ending scene, not really post-credit scene, okay. So right now, as as we begin to kind of look at this franchise in the grand scope of things within this universe.
Speaker 1:I think we kind of should once again sort of show our hands. What do these films mean to you both, Derek, right now the original is number two on your Letterboxd top four. Max, it's currently number four on your Letterboxd top four. I looked at your list of 100 films that you have. It closes out your top 10 all time. I have the original at 34 all time. I have Prometheus at 44 all time and I have Covenant at 79th all time. I have Prometheus at 44 all time and I have covenant at 79th all time. That's right. I know we've all seen repertory and anniversary screenings of the first two films in theaters, Derek. You and the silver streams pod once hosted like a screening of aliens for your birthday. So we'll start with you. What are these movies represent for you and why do you keep returning to them year after year after year?
Speaker 3:I think for me it's the nostalgia, like these were I've told this story before when I whenever we talk about like favorite scary movies and that kind of stuff coming across scenes of alien on tv when I was younger, just like channel, channel surfing uh and seeing that and getting exposed to that and being frightened by that.
Speaker 1:And like that use of words exposed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah and come in, but just to like keep coming back to that, because it was that curiosity, it's like what did I, what did I see, what did I, what am I missing? Like coming back to that later on in life and watching these movies and really developing the love that I have for this franchise. So for me it's it's a very nostalgic thing, but it's also just like good filmmaking and you know the practical effects and stuff, things that Max and I always talk about on silver screams, like just those things that you love that make movies. It's.
Speaker 2:It's what you love about watching movies yeah, I mean a lot of it is the craftsmanship of, of these films. But also, I think earlier I said that you know, each of these films are so diverse and so different, and so their own vision of this universe. It's just. I feel like it's the right way to do a franchise, whether it's an action movie, a horror movie, a bonkers French movie where everyone's yelling a biblical epic, two-part epic, talking about creation and and what life means, um, or a prison movie, uh and I, I. But I also think it comes down to the design of the xenomorph, like is there a more perfect monster, uh, ever created? Uh, in movies, the xenomorph itself is just. It's just the perfect amount of nightmare and coolness and sleek, but also gross and violent, and it can be hidden in the shadows, but then when it's in front of you you can't move. Like it is, it is a perfect, perfect villain for a movie.
Speaker 1:Villain or movie creature in the grand scope of cinema it does feel a little bit like it's a miracle how perfect it is. It really is when you think about it.
Speaker 2:And HR Giger. I'm sure he has tons of credit out there, but his sick and disgusting mind came up with this thing and I'm very grateful for it.
Speaker 1:For sure. I mean, I think kind of what you guys are talking about is that the first one especially, is timeless.
Speaker 3:It's a rite of passage movie too.
Speaker 1:It 100% is like it came out right passage movie 100 is. It came out in 1979 and it is still shown to new generations of cinephiles and people who want to get into sci-fi movies, alien movies, horror movies, just films in general, like every year. That's why you see the repertory screenings and and it still looks great, like I know the first couple movies aliens for as much as I don't like, it still looks great it really does, and so I think that that has a huge part to play in their popularity and their sustainability over time.
Speaker 1:Um, and then just that deep lore kind of that you you both sort of touched on where, like each movie, it it might complicate things a little bit, but at all times it's adding to whatever we already know and making us ask questions like this and turning this into a two hour long podcast or however long this is going to end up going for.
Speaker 1:And also to like. I just have such love for Ridley Scott, like throughout his career, and when I start to look at other filmmakers that I have the same sort of affection for, like west craven, and you think about like how impressive it is that west craven comes up with not only freddy krueger but also ghostface and is responsible for two of maybe like the six most iconic horror villains of all time well, geiger, and then ridley bringing it to life right there with the original one. But then you look at everything else that ridley's done throughout his career and you can like for better, for worse, right, you can be like the same guy that did gladiator, did alien that's freaking awesome.
Speaker 1:And then you can be like the same guy that did house of gucci did alien what um, and so I just I love that for him and I love that he was able to come back to the franchise so many decades later and kind of complete his own sort of trilogy within the franchise, and so for me, that's why those three films are in my top 100 of all time, but also to just like so appreciative for what the, what the franchise has done for just lovers of genre cinema, it's really good and like science fiction I mean science fiction and horror and like marrying that this is the playbook right.
Speaker 1:Yes, how to do that.
Speaker 2:So I think it just means that this franchise is just really, really important to the history of that it is Okay.
Speaker 1:so for franchise rankings and the purpose of this conversation, and really kind of for alignment because we're nothing if not completionists here on ETI when we did our Predator franchise rankings back during the release of Prey, we included the Alien versus Predator film. So we're going to do the same thing again. We've already talked about kind of how they challenged the timeline and, quite frankly, are just not very good movies. But for continuity we will be including them, which I and I guess that makes for an easy place for us to start.
Speaker 1:my guess is that consensus has avp requiem at the bottom of all of our lists that's a fair guess for me yeah, that's a fair guess, derrick yeah sam, yeah, okay, I mean max and I. We talk about this movie a lot. We like to. I mean not a lot, but like whenever we call each other every night.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm just like man.
Speaker 1:You know what's your requiem thoughts yeah, you know, it's still one of the only like two-star movies on my letterbox avp requiem. It's the darkest movie I've ever watched yeah, it's, it's unwatchable.
Speaker 2:You can't. You can see anything, we don't mean that thematically. Yeah, no, no, no, it's impossible to watch physically.
Speaker 1:It challenges your vision. You can't see anything which is too bad because, again, maybe that's what this series does.
Speaker 3:They have a great sheet Alien Earth, but at the same time.
Speaker 1:It just wouldn't make sense timeline wise, and that's why these movies fit the timeline they take place, like in modern times yeah it's like when this movie came out in 2004. They're supposed to just be like, or maybe it's 2006, I don't really know. But they're supposed to just be predators and aliens and they've been around on our earth forever and ever.
Speaker 2:I don't know right, yeah, they like hunt each other for sport yeah and then I believe in requiem is when we get a xenomorph pops out of predalien. Yeah, predalien, yeah, predalien.
Speaker 1:Is that what you guys called at your meetings? Yeah, so, it's at the bottom of your list, but we've never really heard you. I've never heard your thoughts on this film.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, it's just one of those ones that it's like if you're gonna, if you want to tune out and not think about like what you're watching, if you just need something to like get you through the night and sort of watch a dumb movie that just like has a bunch of like it's mindless action, really it's yeah, is what it is um, pop that on like eat some popcorn and just you know kind of squint to like see if you can see what you're seeing. Right, and that was like one of the things too that I was bummed about was that the Predalien has shown up in the comic books and stuff like that and there were action figures of it. I remember growing up seeing those on the toy shelves and then they go to put this on screen and you can't see anything.
Speaker 2:Well, probably because it looked ridiculous. That could be yeah.
Speaker 3:But yeah, just bottom of the barrel for me on this.
Speaker 1:So then I guess the the the question becomes does alien versus predator? The first film come next, or do you guys have something else there?
Speaker 2:I have alien, the predator, there.
Speaker 1:Derek your eight spot yeah that's mine, it is Okay. It's. Yeah, that's mine.
Speaker 3:It is okay, it's it's mine as well, I, and it's not even so much that I I don't like the film I enjoy that because the lore of it is really cool, like you know, having like the background of like this sort of being like the, the ancient hunting ground kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Uh, and they make an effort to bring in wayland enterprises.
Speaker 3:Yes, um, but as far as like, as far as like core like lore and timeline like the sacred timeline, I guess, if we want to go go that route, uh yeah, it just sits just outside of that for me okay, so eight, nine's, easy.
Speaker 2:What comes in at seven then I believe for me is it's resurrection, um, and and again resurrection, a movie that you know takes its fucking swings right. Like it is, it is bat shit, uh to to a certain certain amount, uh, but I think, unfortunately, and it's made by a really interesting filmmaker who goes on to make amelie, which is like a really amazing film in the 2000s french film, um, but I think it does just kind of jump the shark a little too many times, uh, for for this franchise I never knew that about the director yeah, yeah, is that crazy.
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, I was practicing the name earlier jean-pierre jeanette is the name, uh and uh again, a very obviously a talented filmmaker goes on to make a great film. But alien resurrection is just it just felt it also kind of feels tired when you watch it. Like at this point we have done three Alien movies. Alien 3 has a bunch of problems as far as making the movie right, on-set problems, and so this one just felt very and a lot of people didn't like Alien 3 when it first came out, so this one just is a little too Looney Tunes for me, sigourney doesn't feel like she's into alien resurrections well like on screen she'll tell you.
Speaker 2:You know, well, I'm playing a different character, like it's not the original ripley and and again, like retconning, before retconning became popular in movies. Should she have even have been in that movie? Right, could they have just gone with winona, winona rider as the main character? Probably would have done a little better. But also, I think I just think of the 90s, that that kind of filmmaking and what the director was that French director was trying to bring to an American audience, just it didn't work.
Speaker 3:What's your seven? My seven is going to be Alien Resurrection also Consensus, so far yeah.
Speaker 3:To me like this one kind of sits down here. Uh, we've talked a lot on silver screams, about how certain eras of movies have a feel to them, like you can just kind of tell when you're watching like an early 2000s horror movie it's. There's just something about like the way it's written, the way it looks on screen. Something about like the way it's written the way it looks on screen. Um, I get that with alien resurrection it looks like a late 90s product and the movie that I kind of compare it to, that like in my mind. And again, this is like a feel thing for me personally.
Speaker 3:But when I watch this movie I just kind of get the vibe of like that 90s and watching batman and robin, the 1997 batman and again this comes out the same year, so it's again that era and it just fits in yeah, it's just kind of like, you know, super actiony, a little wacky and, yeah, just like you said, taking big swings, like trying trying some new stuff with the baby and everything.
Speaker 1:So it's it's at number seven for me as well, um, and it also it just feels like overly long, like it's a movie that if it's 90 minutes that's a lot easier, I think, for it to watch, but it just kind of drags and drags and drags, um, which I guess we didn't really talk about that with romulus and we can, we can start to kind of circle back because, max, you already said, it's going to be kind of in the middle of yours. Romulus is a two hour film. Do you guys start to feel it at all? You?
Speaker 2:did. Yeah, uh, from the, from when we get to the cocooned walkway on, it's just, it's like five different endings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like yeah, yeah, I put that in my first review too, where I was like it took. It feels like out of the 30-minute ending, it took 20 minutes to get there, to the human morph, when it's like just have that be your ending.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Until we got to Dirk.
Speaker 2:No, but we had to do the line from Aliens. We had to do the elevator shaft. We had to do the crawling.
Speaker 1:The pulse rifle.
Speaker 2:The pulse rifle. We had to do all those knots, the crawling I like that.
Speaker 1:Okay Well, so this will be gosh. This will be really interesting Because at the top I think, right like I guess we can just kind of, we can spoil the end of our list, alien is going to be one for all of us. Yeah, aliens, one for me, and now we kind of get, I think, into a little bit of like personal flavor as far as as things go. And so, max, what's it?
Speaker 2:Your number six my number six is Romulus. Okay, and I think you know, for all the reasons I've been saying it, just it feels like a blender of everything we've seen before. And again, I've said it a thousand times, what I love about this franchise is that each movie is very distinct in its own way, in its own feel, own way and its own feel, and so for me, romulus falls flat because of that, even though, like again, some of the first 30 minutes, first 40 minutes, amazing stuff, face huggers, amazing stuff. But yeah, that it, it, it, just it doesn't. It doesn't touch the highs and the uniqueness, I think, of some of these other films.
Speaker 1:Okay, derek, at your number six.
Speaker 3:My number six is going to be Alien 3.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm like the swing vote here because I have Alien 3 lower, but I love what Max has been saying about just so. These are the two phrases that I keep thinking, or the two kind of like yeah, I guess they're just like little catchphrases that I'm like what's the difference between being creatively bankrupt and creatively safe? And so now I'm like is Romulus safe or is it bankrupt? And so talk to us about three, derek, since this is where you have three and you're six derek, since this is where you have three in your six.
Speaker 3:So for me and I know this is coming from fincher, so it's, you know, uh, you know, highly, highly praised director yeah, you're literally sitting under like a shrine of his book.
Speaker 3:I know, uh so yeah, forgive me for the blasphemy here like, uh, putting this so low on the list, then, um, For me this one just sort of and again like a feeling thing, like where this fits in with the, the franchise. It just seemed like this was sort of one that they were kind of reaching for, Like can we squeeze just a little bit more out of this by having you know Ripley's, you know pod crash onto like this.
Speaker 1:Where else could we send her? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like where, where's this, where's this pod crash landing Like the next pod that she launched on? Where's that one going to crash land? Where's?
Speaker 1:this pod crash landing Like the next pod that she launched on. Where's that one going to crash?
Speaker 2:land. This just this week on alien.
Speaker 3:Exactly, alien, earth, get ready, yeah, yeah. Alien three to me just felt like can we squeeze a little bit more out of it and can we like maybe make it a better sequel by attaching, you know, an acclaimed director to it? Like what vision can we bring to this? And like it's, it's. It has its interesting aspects, like her landing on this, you know, strictly male prison colony, like the tension that that already creates and you see it like throughout the film and everything like as she's like moving through, which, by the way, like very lax security, like allowing her to move through like that when at the beginning they were very strict, and like don't let her wander around.
Speaker 3:Like don't let her be seen, yeah, yeah it's gonna disrupt what we have, the harmony that we have going on here, and the first thing that they let her do is just like wander out.
Speaker 1:And maybe it's because she's bald, I don't know could be, but yeah, like it again just felt like trying to squeeze like a last little bit of juice, like after those first two films it's interesting because and I hear what you're saying like you you say the name david fincher and for anybody that doesn't know, like yeah, david fincher directed a alien movie, but like way before he was david fincher and so when I because I agree they they were just kind of like going back to the well, but it also and especially for me, not being a huge fan of aliens was so interesting that they like toned it not down, but it's just a completely different vibe. It's a completely different vibe, it's completely different pitch. It is probably the most. When you take out the Alien vs Predator films, it is the most standalone out of these movies where it is just completely different. So a part of me kind of agrees with Max for having, because I assume then that three is is your five, five spot, yeah and the thing I love.
Speaker 2:I mean I, I think charles uh, charles, dance, dance gives one of the best performances in any alien movie. Uh, throughout alien three. I love how it's, how, like orange and bronze and like you know, just the color tone alone is just so much different than the blues and the reds, and or or just like the straight up blackness of it's very industrial um, and it does, you know.
Speaker 2:It gets us on a, on a planet with xenomorphs. You know, before something like covenant or prometheus, right and and kind of does like, but also is contained as like an alien movie, because you are in this like ship-like facility running around these corridors being chased right.
Speaker 2:Like that's all, like, really like. Built-in DNA to an alien movie that needs to happen, built-in dna to an alien movie that needs to happen. Um, I also love that. Like it's the first time you that you realize, like, oh, if an alien like goes into a dog or something like that it's going to be different.
Speaker 2:A cow, yeah, yeah it's gonna, it's gonna look different, it's gonna move different. So it adds some lore there to the creature itself, um, and it has a great ending where, like Ripley kills herself like it is the ultimate sacrificial. So then that also kind of touches on like the biblical aspect that Ridley goes on and explores in later movies. I just think it's a, it's a great prison all-in-one-place movie. It's.
Speaker 1:It's really good so this is tough because I mean, like if you look at my rankings of the individual film, like obviously alien's gonna be a more, it's gonna have a different level of craft to it, like the prestige that goes into the filmmaking is just not what you can have in 1992 or whenever the third one came out. But there's something so grimy about that, that third one that feels right within the franchise. So because they're four and five for me and I feel like I've I've been outed as a little bit of a prisoner of recency bias.
Speaker 1:What's your?
Speaker 2:five. What's your five right now?
Speaker 1:so I, so I had it romulus five, three, it's six. But now I'm like, do I flip-flop those and honestly just for like, so that there's not a huge disparity like aliens. I could just never watch aliens again in my life and be okay with that. But I know that for like the sake the sake of this conversation and just so that I don't get like my letterbox no one reports my letterbox account and. I can't log in tomorrow or something Like. I need to say that aliens is fun.
Speaker 2:Where, where is aliens on your list? It's fourth.
Speaker 1:It's fourth, yeah, um but I know that won't last, I know that won't last, I know that won't last, so I don't know. I think. I think we put alien three at five and alien Romulus.
Speaker 2:It's six. Well, where's Romulus on your list, Derek? Oh, is it three.
Speaker 1:Oh see I sorry, I was under the impression that we were all five, six, five six.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow. Oh see, I'm sorry, I was under the impression that we were all 5-6, 5-6. Wow, you have it all the way up at 3. Why?
Speaker 3:Okay, give us the sermon, Pull us back. So again, yeah, kind of as I alluded to when we first at the start of the episode, like coming back, why I keep coming back to this franchise and everything.
Speaker 3:it's the nostalgia it's the feeling, keep coming back to this franchise and everything. It's the nostalgia, it's the feeling and again, as I said, if you're, if you're only listening to this rankings portion, like I said in the the talk about romulus part, going back into that cockpit and seeing the analog, like sci-fi, futuristic stuff, just felt so cool, like it just felt like it didn't feel cold and like lifeless and stuff like some sci-fi movies can feel like when they get the super futuristic, like you know, you know big, like you know put the gloves on and like pull up a screen out of thin air kind of thing, and or they're just like doing 2001 again and again and again.
Speaker 3:For the 50th time we're trying to be trying to make how having like tactile, like things that you're interacting with in the world and it just the the fan service stuff that max was talking about.
Speaker 3:It didn't feel shoehorned into me. I thought it was kind of cool to see those little tidbits and everything and see the threads that connect this franchise together, because there were a lot of times like again, like sort of why these other films are sort of lower on my list is they felt a little disjointed and maybe like the only connecting thread was ripley here in these films, like it didn't quite like if you took ripley out of those films and is this going to be like you know, could you, could you see this like replacing the monster, like if it wasn't a xenomorph? Would you watch this movie if it was like some other like creature? Uh, you know, for alien resurrection maybe, like that doesn't apply, but for alien three, like a creature landing on a prison colony, you know, maybe that's cool, but does it have the same, do we hold it to the same kind of like level? And you can't answer that because this is the movie that was made anyway.
Speaker 1:This just sort of go ahead, no go ahead. Finish your thought okay, this, uh.
Speaker 3:So the reason I have romulus up high like that is because it sort of returned me to that, that period of this franchise when everything was still very new and or new to like the world like coming back to that, and it did sort of feel like a cool separate story. Like you know, ripley isn't even mentioned by name in this film, like they talk about, you know, having one survivor from from that crew and she tried to, like you know, kill the alien but didn't. She's never mentioned by name. So I thought it was really cool to have this story in this universe and not have to have that ripley thread in there, at least directly on screen or mentioned.
Speaker 1:And this is tough Because I'm right there with you With Romulus. The first time I saw it, I was just so entertained. And then, the second time I watched it is when I started feeling like this is a little bit of bait, this is a little bit of bait. And then, throughout this conversation, realizing that it's a blender, like how you've put it Max. Conversation, realizing that, like it's, it's a blender, like how you've put it max, but like, is that okay? Is is that okay? Like I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. What I want to know, derek, what I was pointing to you at for a second ago, is what's your if, if three, is it your six? What's your five?
Speaker 3:five for me is uh prometheus I, I don't know if we can let that fly um sheesh okay and that question you're asking, is it okay?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's a blender, is it okay? Yeah, that's between you and the xenomorph look it is.
Speaker 1:It is. It's between it's between me and fetty, me and ridley.
Speaker 3:Here's the thing before you, before you take away my microphone and like kick me out of that, kick me out of the studio. I I love and this.
Speaker 3:This was a very hard, like top, like five for me yeah because I just because, after recently re-watching some of these films for the in anticipation of this episode prometheus and covenant were a back-to-back watch for me and watching them back-to-back I got a whole lot more out of that viewing like watching back-to-back like that and just sort of seeing the progression of that timeline and stuff and I love those films I rated them four.
Speaker 1:They're both four stars on my doing the work like I was watching.
Speaker 3:So it's not that, it's not that I think this is a bad movie, it's just like this is where this one falls for me. And it's more so because prometheus was a little bit more of like the philosophical kind of like chasing, chasing god kind of thing for me and it was cool and like especially like the creature at the end and everything that you get to see, like the tentacle monster, it's like where the fuck is this coming from? And like then seeing sort of the, the first neomorph like no me were passing stomach.
Speaker 1:That's where it's coming from out of that.
Speaker 3:It's like there's cool stuff in there and like the philosophical stuff and where it leads into covenant. Like I love it for that. Uh, covenant, I just liked a little bit more than this one.
Speaker 1:That's crazy too, because if you have prometheus at five, then you have covenant ahead of prometheus.
Speaker 3:Wow, this guy you want to just shut me off now.
Speaker 1:No, I love I love what you're bringing to the pod. I love what you're bringing to the pod. I love what you're bringing to the pod because if it was just max and I think that we would just be kind of like circling the wagons on prometheus and covenant I have prometheus at two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have aliens at three, covenant at four so the only thing we're set on is that AVP movies suck and Alien is a goat, that's all we got really. I mean, we have Resurrection down there, but okay, so we need to place our sixth film. You have, and Max and I are just back and forth with 5, 6 being Romulus and 3. I think then you know what, maybe we slide, we slide three into six, and then we bring up Romulus into the top five.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that more lines with where Derek has it at his three. Sure, yeah, yeah, and I mean alien three is one of those fun movies to just like let's keep underrating it let's keep under appreciating it Fincher.
Speaker 3:Fincher doesn't even like it I know, he disowns it yeah
Speaker 1:so why should we, why should we hype it up? That's our job. I guess that's our job here on this pod. Um, okay, so alien three, we'll lock that in at six, and and then this is where, like, the only conversation that I would have potentially is covenant at five. No, hell, no can't do it. Can't do it the only conversation that I would have with myself in the mirror at 11 o'clock at night or whatever, is like. I'm that guy pointing to himself, just being like stand your ground.
Speaker 3:Don't let him tell you that aliens is good because, listen, no, this is, this is the beauty of like film discussion. Like I don't let them tell you that aliens is good, because, listen, no, this is this is the beauty of like film discussion. Though, like I don't, you know, I hardly ever expect to come into your guys's house and like have like just a chalk.
Speaker 1:Like this is our space station pick for yes, yeah, this is remus actually, or this is this is fosberg and macaulay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fosberg, macaulay romulus remus or, uh, romulus remus, yeah, so it's just, it's just really really tough because I was thinking about. I was thinking about what would happen. Okay, just hear me out hypothetically. What would happen if, in halloween 2, john carpenter comes back and he's like you know what actually happened at the insane asylum? They cloned michael myers and now there's 50 michael myers running around haddonfield. Would people look back on that and be like just as good as the first man?
Speaker 2:still slaps. No, that's crazy. That's absolutely okay.
Speaker 1:So then what? What is different between what cameron did with aliens versus then what ridley did with alien? Because, in my opinion, an alien you have a perfect horror film that is also a perfect sci-fi film one unkillable creature that wreaks havoc across this space station. And then in aliens you take that one creature and you totally minimize the their lethal abilities, you make them super easy to kill. You just turn it into a war film and I'm fine with liking that movie as an action film, but it is just so far removed from what we got in the original to where I always hold that against it yeah, it is again.
Speaker 2:It is so, so different and you're right it does. It does downgrade the xenomorph as a creature, right, like as a villain. Uh, however it it also gives us some some of the most like thrilling 80s action moments. It gives us big jim cameron who, like you know, he had done piranha 2 before this and, and you know, quite frankly, I it'd be really interesting to pull. You know, like I bet you, more people enjoy aliens than they do alien I agree with you on that um now you know, and I think that's kind of what alien three?
Speaker 1:why alien three is a little special, because it goes back to that right and then alien four goes back to the crazy and I also think that that was the design of aliens right to make it more enjoyable, make it more palatable for everybody who just wants to watch strictly a blockbuster.
Speaker 2:Yeah and it, yeah, aliens, just to me aliens. It it definitely it gets. This is weird to say about a jim cameron movie, but it it shies away from the alien right, like it's more about the, the human characters and, granted, like the script is not great, like it is really bad.
Speaker 1:Actually a bunch of dumb. One line, one lin one-liners, but like you, but so is every hicks 80s action movie right.
Speaker 2:Basically is that yeah uh and um vasquez, and like fucking, you know, and and so like the, the iconography of, of, like colonial marines and or space marines, you know, I think, really gets born in that movie. It's, it's, it's definitely a different flavor, it's, it's it, you know. I don't know it, but you know what I just realized.
Speaker 1:Do you think that good?
Speaker 2:pizza. You know, pizza is different flavors, but it's all pizza. Do you think that?
Speaker 1:it's a question for both of you. Do you think that the marines in the video game halo are? Just like absolutely why did I just have that?
Speaker 2:it's completely realization even the ship, the pillar of autumn in halo. Even the assault rifle is kind of the pulse rifle right, oh totally do you?
Speaker 1:did you have this moment already? Am I just over here like?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, no, no, no, okay. I, as a 12 year old kid, when I'm playing Halo, I immediately I mean Sergeant Johnson is Al Pone and Vasquez.
Speaker 1:who's Vasquez in the movie?
Speaker 2:Vasquez is Mendoza.
Speaker 1:And that character is voiced by Michelle Rodriguez in the video game right In Halo.
Speaker 2:I don't remember, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think so.
Speaker 2:But even in Halo the pilot of the Pelican Foehammer is exactly the chick with the aviators and aliens.
Speaker 1:Kind of blow my mind right now. Yeah, Okay, so I mean that's argument against aliens, but while also what you know, Max is also explaining exactly why people love it. And it's not that that doesn't make sense to me. Personally, it's just like a little bit sacrilegious what you did to my guy the xenomorph sure, I think for me it's.
Speaker 3:It's a matter of like circumstance. So look at the look at the environment that you're in an alien you're on a single. You're on a ship and somebody gets infected with this thing and there could have been more. I mean you saw how many eggs were in that abandoned ship and stuff. Yeah, my boy David was busy doing work. It's not that you had just one creature. The potential was there to have like an outbreak, an outbreak like that, but one person was the. It was only one person that got infected, sorry and an alien.
Speaker 2:You know the aliens up against space truckers exactly, see. So that's the other thing that I'm getting at, too, is that there's no there's no actual weapons on that ship.
Speaker 3:I mean, they're having this, this conversation like how? Like how do we take care of this thing? Because we don't have. They have like a cattle prod basically and like a blowtorch or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so they, they makeshift, you know, like weaponry to try and confront this thing. But you know, again, this thing is adapting and surviving and trying, sneaking around. It's a slasher film like it's trying to survive as much as they are trying to survive it. So, yes, it's, it's sort of that. You know, like a cornered creature is, you know, going to fight for its survival anyway. So, circumstance wise, like that is why that one is so. That's why that one to me is like scary is because you're, you're sort of helpless oh yeah, in that moment I think we're all in over that, and right.
Speaker 3:The second one sort of shifts to that and it becomes like here's what would happen if all those eggs had, you know, opened up on all those crew members that were down there, if any, if everybody had gotten a face hugger and they're just on the offense now yeah, and it's.
Speaker 3:It turns from a slasher movie to a zombie movie because now it's like you're a smaller group of survivors up against a horde of these things and they're easy to kill. But it's a sheer numbers thing now and again, like a late 80 or like, I guess, like mid-80s, 86, mid-80s movie. This is sort of like again the times, like like this film. Sort of like again the times. Like like this film, sort of like when it comes out. Macho.
Speaker 2:Yes, like the you.
Speaker 3:You see that in like predator and stuff with Jesse Jackson and Arnold Schwarzenegger like the over.
Speaker 1:Jesse Ventura.
Speaker 2:Ventura yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1:Jackson Jeez. Carl Weathers beat him out for the part.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just sort of the product of the times and not trying to excuse or not trying to sway your vote here, because your feelings on this movie are your feelings yeah, and they're not going to change at this point.
Speaker 1:I think also without Aliens.
Speaker 2:It really kind of paints Weyland and the company as this overarching evil empire, right, I mean the you know the uh paul reiser character is his first line. I just his first line is like I work for the company but I'm not that bad of a guy and so like it kind of starts that tell me you're not a good guy without telling me you're not right but guy.
Speaker 2:But it also starts that idea and that conversation of capitalism, anti-corporate, which then Ridley does come back and touch a lot in, like Prometheus and Covenant, and it's not as evident in Alien. So I think Aliens has a lot of.
Speaker 1:I've never heard Ridley. I should look this up. Has Ridley ever been asked his thoughts on Aliens?
Speaker 2:So I don't know if he's ever talked about the actual movie. All I've been able to find is that when he's asked about Aliens he is upset because the studio never came to him for the sequel. They never came and asked him what would you like to do for the sequel? Interesting, they went. I don't know if they went directly to jim cameron or if they just went out to look for someone new. Um, so I, but yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know his actual thoughts on the movie Interesting.
Speaker 3:It would be. I would love to know, like, where he would have taken. He would have taken it if the studio hadn't been like let's take those and multiply it and create a big action movie and stuff which.
Speaker 1:Cause I feel like honestly later in Ridley's career like in the kingdom of heaven days gladiator career, like in the kingdom of heaven days, gladiator, and when he was in the middle of his big like sword and sandals epics, that that would have been an interesting time to see him make the kind of alien sequel that jim made in the 80s. But at that point so much else had already come and it would have been right just kind of counterproductive for for ridley to return to it. At that point it makes sense for him to go back and do the more existential prequels. The setup bring religion into it. Um, so I don't know. Okay, what we need to do here is find a fifth, what goes in our, in our five spot.
Speaker 2:This is where I think romulus needs to go I, I, I would also agree with that, that romulus should go five and you're just gonna have to accept our love of prometheus and covenant for a minute because we're getting to that point in the pod.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's um.
Speaker 1:And also too, I think that again like my like, this is a very close like yeah, I mean you're, we're we're starting to talk about like just like really good movies here from from here on out, like really really good movies. So we have just to recap, kind of last I don't know 20 minutes of conversation. Alien 3 is at 6. We're gonna put romulus at 5, and again too, we don't want to be too much like I might even go back and now change my letterbox ranking from a four and a half down to a four, just because I don't want to be a prisoner of the moment I, I don't.
Speaker 1:I really don't want to be with romulus, even though I still do think it's like one of my most favorite things I've seen this year. It's going at five right here and now we have, like our mount rushmore, our final four of alien movies that we need to go through. Um, personally, this is where I have aliens. I've just kind of gone through my whole feeling about why. Um, I think that this is ridley's franchise, and so my top three are going to be the ridley scott films, but if it's covenant for you guys like let's, let's talk about it, or we can at least maybe talk about the strengths of covenant compared to the strengths of of aliens. Derek, you have coming in above prometheus, though, so that's really interesting as well, and we don't really need to figure out our one right, we just need to figure out where one is alien yeah, we just need to figure out where to place aliens.
Speaker 1:Going in chronological order, here I've released eight aliens prometheus and then covenant I'm guessing derek does.
Speaker 2:Would your rankings go? Aliens, covenant, prometheus, out of these three?
Speaker 1:Aliens is in your two.
Speaker 3:Aliens is my two. Yeah, that's a pierce.
Speaker 1:I mean that's why we brought him on. He's the pierced right, yeah. We're the wild cards here that are like. You know what's actually interesting? Artificial Idris Elba. Idris Elba celebrating Christmas Christmas in space. And artificial. Idris elba celebrating christmas and logan marshall green drinking bottles of ace of spade on the pool table like god, getting his drink spiked, yeah, getting his drink spiked, yeah the worst, the, the most critical roofie of all time, um gosh, okay, the.
Speaker 1:The purest take here is definitely to go alien aliens at two. I think that there's. There's so much good stuff in Prometheus and you said you have Prometheus at two and that's where I have it, cause mine goes alien Prometheus covenant aliens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mine goes. Alien Promet, prometheus, aliens and then covenant I think so here's. Here's the deal with covenant covenant awesome, like the first 45, 45 to 50 minutes is fucking amazing I could tell you down to like the second mark yeah, yeah, right, like from like being on the ship getting down to planet, we're walking through the jungle, like it is fantastic, it looks fantastic, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 1:It sounds great and the more you watch it and the more you see what David's been doing in his labs, growing the wheat that's going to release this toxin that's going to infect whoever comes to find the beacon. It's just so premeditated and intricate and, like as much credit as we give the xenomorph for being the perfect organism, david is the greatest villain that this franchise has seen, and and when you when I say villain, I mean like, calculated, like the xenomorph's a killing machine.
Speaker 1:It's perfect, yeah, but david is evil, yeah, evil in a way that, like I put him up against, like put him up against the joker, put him up against whoever you want to put him up against one of the greatest antagonists in 21st century film I think what, why covenant's in the four spot for me is because you need prometheus before covenant.
Speaker 2:Right, it really is like a seven hour long movie, like the two of them together and and they need and you don't even need, actually you don't promet't. Prometheus doesn't need Covenant, but Covenant needs Prometheus.
Speaker 1:And I agree with that. I mean, I have Prometheus ahead of Covenant, yeah. So that's why, for me, those shortcomings for it not again, not being a standalone story or whatnot, not that it has to be that, but that's why it's in my four spot the one thing that covenant has going for it that prometheus doesn't, though in relationship to making me feel the way I felt when I first watched the original is that covenant's a horror film. Prometheus is a sci-fi, sci-fi epic yeah actually adventure movie almost kind of covenants scary as shit at times that's very true.
Speaker 2:That is very true. Covenant.
Speaker 1:Covenant does get back to the horror roots when that first, when that full, when the full-grown neomorph comes into behind the city walls where they've like taken refuge, and it's standing there face to face with fast bender and then billy crud up shoots it and fast bender snaps on crud up and then that's when he's like you're my guy and you're coming and you're getting face hugged. That is we talk so much about that 35 to 55 minute segment of the film, but that sequence right there where crud up gets his uppings for comeuppance, his crud uppance, is also phenomenal and so so good see for me like the one, the thing that I love, the scene I love in that movie is the one right before that.
Speaker 3:So it's when they, right before they, encounter it in that sort of like grotto or like washing area yeah, when, uh, I can't remember her name, but the character that's in there like washing her face and she just like I'm gonna go clean up boss yeah okay, I've enjoyed your presence in this film says the unholy, the unholy phrase in the horror movies.
Speaker 3:I'll be right back exactly um, yeah, when she's in there washing her face and then gets that sense that something is watching her and she turns around and it's just standing there and the blank, like when the neomorphs that don't have like the mouth exposed right away. It's just standing there with the blank white face and it's sort of like it's breathing and it's very shallow and it almost like puts off this sense like one of the olympic ice skaters, ready to take off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the speed skaters, yeah uh, and it's just like it's shallow breathing and it's like you, it almost makes it feel like it's nervous to be face to face with her and you're just as like scared seeing this thing such a good scene and then it like you know, attacks and you see the mouth open and everything like that, just that scene like. When I re-watched this I was just like, oh that's and that's really good one.
Speaker 2:The backburster is like some of the sickest shit ever.
Speaker 1:Like is dope that sequence yeah when, when carmen abigo, I think that's how you say her last name when she has her hand on on that guy's back and she's trying to console him and amy simons has already like locked her in there or whatever, and she's just like, okay, well, whatever, I guess I'll do my best.
Speaker 1:And then the spike comes out like through her hand and she's just like give me the fuck out of here. Like, oh, it's so good, all of that is just so great. Covenant's amazing. We can put covenant at four I understand the covenant should probably go four and and then it's a conversation between alien versus prometheus aliens aliens and prometheus in that two, three spot.
Speaker 1:Um, derek's got aliens there, you and I, prometheus, at two. I think this is a great conversation because both movies set out to accomplish what their mission was Right. You can't say that Aliens is ineffective as an 80s action blockbuster. It is like it's on the Mount Rushmore for so many different things For that decade of the 80s. Right For just like war movies.
Speaker 2:For the Like non-traditional war movies you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:female action hero absolutely yes so you mentioned that just like triggered that thing in my mind that I was when watching romulus. Uh, just the thing that I've loved about this entire franchise has been like the female here, the female lead hero, like the strong, strong female characters that have, uh, you know, gone through and have been the center of these films, like ripley through those, uh, first four movies really, uh, and then, you know, rain in this new one and everything in that one nomi rapasi and prometheus catherine.
Speaker 1:Uh, watterson, covenant, covenant, yep, I feel, and you know what that's ridley did that. That's, that's ridley scott, right there, because he's, I mean, you look at them and louise, you look at tons of movies across his career, like shout out to that guy for always putting strong female lead characters at the center of his films.
Speaker 3:So sorry to interrupt your thing, remind me I have just like a thought up here in this bubble that's not related to rankings right now.
Speaker 1:Okay, are you ready? Are we gonna do 20 minutes on Eva Green?
Speaker 3:and Kingdom of Heaven, because I'll go there.
Speaker 1:Okay, eva green, and kingdom of heaven, cause I'll go there. Um, okay, we gotta, we gotta get Prometheus and aliens ranked here. I think you're kind of the swing on this max, because I'm I'm totally team Prometheus, derek's team aliens.
Speaker 2:I just. Okay, so listen, aliens is really really amazing and, like you know, rewatching it this week. Okay, so listen, aliens is really really amazing and, like you know, rewatching it this week. There's a lot of iconic scenes For me. I think Prometheus is just, I think, a better well-made movie, like on a just a surface tactical level, like I and you know, I think some of the the. I think there are some pacing issues in aliens, like the first 45 minutes is pretty.
Speaker 2:we're pretty like it's a pretty long build-up, but then it's just like it's non-stop action after that, prometheus I think prometheus is the fastest two and a half hour long film I've ever watched yeah, prometheus also has, you know, slow moments, but like it doesn't it, it's not as as bogged as as some some stuff in uh, in aliens the slower moments in prometheus are still so interesting, though, because it's like logan marshall green and nomi ripasiomi Rapace navigating their infertility issues.
Speaker 2:The flashbacks, Patrick Wilson's her dad there's so much interesting stuff, the fact that also, when Prometheus came out in theaters, the fact that it was a sneaky prequel to Alien, I had no idea going into the movie.
Speaker 3:There was a lot of speculation but there was nothing leading up to it that you saw in trailers or anything like that that would have indicated.
Speaker 1:But there's no face huggers.
Speaker 3:There's no xenomorph there's no chest bursters. There's none of that stuff.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we saw we still get great creature action, like it's still a creature you could say that squid thing is is the first face hucker.
Speaker 2:It just yeah, true. You can say that squid thing is the first facehugger.
Speaker 3:Yeah, true, you can say that it just sort of had that scent. Yeah, like because it was Ridley Scott doing a sci-fi movie and people, just those two things. People were like, are you doing what we think you're doing?
Speaker 1:I need to go back and watch the theatrical trailer for it and see exactly what they gave away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean maybe if you I think in the trailer they show like the derelict ship like rolling, like at the end action set piece. So maybe if you clock that but I remember not clocking that and also like looking back at that cast like just a murderer's row of people in that time, like to have all of those actors in one movie, uh, kind of unbelievable. You know, a lot of those people go on to be some of the biggest people in in the business, right, with charlie's they're on, and this is before, this is before mad max, right? Or is it after? This is?
Speaker 2:before, it's like three years before, before mad max, no one had really heard from her for a minute you know, idris elba, at this time, I remember, is like oh, this is the guy from the wire who, like, he's going to be the next big thing. Granted that, you know. Unfortunately I don't know who's picking his projects, but we're still waiting for you, idris.
Speaker 2:You got guy pierce in like old, old man, like tilda swinton makeup from grand budapest yeah you know, walking around, you don't even know it's guy purist until, like you know, the the credits um.
Speaker 1:Fast bender steals the show.
Speaker 2:Fast bender is this guy who was like in a quentin tarantino movie, who now is like the center of this science fiction, also like just pure science fiction, um, where you know a lot of the the sequels go into an action genre, right, this kind of brings it back to that. You know, you have more of a sense of like space and sci-fi atmosphere to it um.
Speaker 1:you know who wrote the script for prometometheus? Who? Damon Lindhoff?
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:There you go, one of the best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, also like the. The music in Prometheus is some of the best of the series. I listen, I listen to the. I think it's the the life track, it's like the main one when they're like you know traveling through space. Just fantastic, Really really fantastic stuff.
Speaker 1:So where, where do? You stand on the fan theory that I'm making up right now that Sean Harris from mission impossible gets like extradited somewhere and then he becomes a geologist who just loves rocks.
Speaker 1:Love that and then gets sent up with the Prometheus crew gets really good at his job, cause when you rewatch it you're like Sean Harris, kate Dickey, like Benedict Wong, like the list. And I mean we could have done the same thing for Covenant Covenant, you know, damien Bashir all these people showing up in there and like, listen, aliens has a great cast too, right?
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, I mean you've got some major 80s players in that film as well and I think that they've.
Speaker 1:There's a lot more reverence for that cast now where, like, I think we can look back and be like paul reiser's awesome in that movie, but it's not like I'm I couldn't, you know, school's about to start back up. It's not like I can go back in and have a conversation with a, a my students or B even the teachers and been like what did you think about Mad, about you? Was that a show for you? But we look back on it and we're like it's awesome and same with this cast. I mean, it's not like we're going to look back and as much as I like Benedict Wong and Kate Dickey, it's not like they're ever going to win an Oscar.
Speaker 2:But much like how Paulul reiser like kind of time kind of came and went or whatever, but again got the right person at the right time for the role. Yeah, and and I just I love how deep prometheus is and its themes and it's what it's talking about and like the search for for how life started and and what's beyond the stars and like that just I don't know that really resonates with me and again, it's very against type for an alien movie, right, but that is one of my favorite things about this franchise is that each movie really takes a big swing at what it's trying to do and what it's trying to say I don't know if a director, if a writer, director, combo on a film, has ever taken a bigger swing than what is being communicated in Prometheus that basically, christianity is not real.
Speaker 1:Jesus was an alien and sacrificed himself and his DNA to make us, and now we as humans are ruining that.
Speaker 2:I think, I think really came out and said well, yeah, the engineers created life, Right.
Speaker 1:And then.
Speaker 2:And then humankind starts. And then they sent an engineer back Right Cause that's the kind of the cave drawings, yes. And then that engineer was Jesus and we killed him, and that's why the engineers were coming to bomb us with the black goo.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like it's wild. It's absolutely wild, but it's.
Speaker 1:And then artificial intelligence is going to get to the point where it is going to take over. It's going to intercept that mission and and um, speed up the timeline of it. I just you know what I wish. I wish raised by wolves would have been ridley continuing like david david story story.
Speaker 2:That would have been interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the first couple of episodes of raised by wolves were really really good, the ones that ridley was directing.
Speaker 2:Then it kind of went off the rails yeah, um, so I I mean listen if if we're going off my list, I I prefer prometheus over alienometheus at two.
Speaker 1:You fine, with Aliens having the bronze medal.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Are you going to come back if we invite you for something?
Speaker 3:else yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:Is there anything else?
Speaker 3:I mean, I Look for me part of what I love about Aliens, and it's not just because I'm an old and this was like a you know sort of you are what like 52 or something like that. Yeah, thank you I'm like a day over 52 um uh, one of the.
Speaker 3:He was in the prison colony the thing that I love about aliens is not just you know sort of the action aspect and that you get to see more xenomorphs and everything and sort of see like the horde aspect of it, which you know is that is sort of set up in this, because the way that this works is it's like a hive. These the xenomorphs are, they're called drones, there's drones, there's warriors, there's like a whole like different, there's different types of the xenomorphs. They're called drones. There's drones, there's warriors, there's like a whole like different, there's different types of the xenomorphs.
Speaker 3:It's like a bee's nest, yeah pretty much, and so this is sort of expanding or like building up that, uh, that lore and you sort of. You sort of get that in this and with the with the story arc, like the, the hero's journey, so to speak, like the final, the final push back, like the when the darkness pushes back, kind of thing. You get the moment where you think that everything's all right and then we reveal, but wait, there's a bigger alien. And you get the queen, and just that that reveal on screen is amazing. And then when she pulls herself apart, when Ripley, you know, blows up the nest, when she pulls herself up from her, from her birth canal basically, and chases after her to get her revenge now for Ripley killing her babies, that fight, sequence and everything just really cool. And then you get, of course, you know, the iconic line stay away from her, you bitch. You get the cool fight in the lifter suit and for me it's you know, that's I. It's just something that I love about it.
Speaker 1:So I feel about Newt. If Newt was your niece, are you hanging out with Newt like twice a week?
Speaker 3:If I could get her to stop screaming.
Speaker 1:So no annoying kids.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, yeah, this just triggered another like trauma thing I was dealing with in romulus, like when he says that line get away from her, you bitch. Like it makes sense in aliens for sigourney weaver, who was a mother who lost her child and then becomes a surrogate mother, to say that that means something.
Speaker 3:And she was attacking the queen alien Right right.
Speaker 2:And then for yeah, for Andy, this android, to say it, and also stumbling over his words. Here's what so stupid.
Speaker 1:Well, here's. There's one thing that they try to do in the script to cover their rear ends on this one and make it possible. I didn't catch it until the second time, but it's when the Bjorn character, who is hostile towards Andy throughout the entire film because of that character's own trauma with what an android did with his parents, his mother in particular, mother in particular he says something to him on their ride up to this, this deserted uh space station where he walks by and he's like um time to buckle up, you bitch. And he calls, he calls andy a bitch.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so, and you see, andy, kind of processing through that word and how, like, never heard that, like, because I assume kaylee spain, he's probably never called him a bitch or anything like that and so he's processing like, oh, a new word, like how would I use that in that in it, but it's so stupid and it's so shallow and such a like surface level, like we're gonna again like this little, like chekhov's use of the word bitch, and so that we can just use that. We can bring it back later, yeah, so it's there, but it's it's. It's not very well done. Yeah, sorry, yeah, I just yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, triggered.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I think we have our, our rankings here. We have alien one, promet aliens at three, alien covenant at four, we have romulus at five, alien three, six, and then we close out with resurrection, avp, avp, requiem feels good, feels pretty good feels pretty good I think. I think landing on romulus in the middle is probably the most important thing that that we did there, um, really good stuff. Before we close out, I'm going to remind you of your little tangent Thank you.
Speaker 2:I asked the question earlier of who or what we want for this franchise.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And as we were talking about female heroes and you know there's a lot of like birthing stuff in this there's never been a female director of these movies, of alien movies. Give me Arkeshavenson arkasha, arkasha stevenson from the first omen.
Speaker 1:Who?
Speaker 2:who knows a thing or two about berthin? In from first omen omen give her the, the next movie. Let her do it. That would be cool. She she'll make it look like a 70s film, just like she did with first omen. She knows how to do horror.
Speaker 1:We can break ground, uh, with a woman being in the director's chair first omen's a fox property too she's in the studio, yeah um, okay, that reminds me, I think last time we did a mailbag um episode or we took some mailbag questions, there was talk about like who would you want like a superhero movie you would want somebody to do, or something like that. And I was like nia da costa, who she? Her last film that she directed was candy man. I would love to see nia da costa's take. She's got the body horror side of it.
Speaker 1:I would love to see her. That's a good crack at um an alien film. That'd be really good. Dude, that birthing scene, that cesarean scene in prometheus maybe my favorite scene of the entire series so good okay so did you re-watch prometheus this week? Not this week, no, recently. I've re-watched it recently too. I didn't do it this week. Scary how much of that film I have memorized. Like, actually, actually, when she's stumbling into that room and she's just like I need cesarean saying it back to the TV.
Speaker 3:I'm like I need to go outside and touch some grass problem.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, um, all right. So that does it for our episode on alien Romulus and our alien franchise rankings. Derek, we couldn't have found the distress beacon without you, so thank you so much for jumping on the mic here with us today. We hope you had a good time. Uh, what's next for silver screams?
Speaker 3:Uh, so fun stuff coming up for silver screams. Uh, you mentioned uh sort of at the top um about gig Harbor film festival. Uh, eti is going to have a presence there. Well, silver Screams is also going to have a presence at the Gig Harbor Film Festival this year I love to hear it. I am happy to say that we are partnering with the Gig Harbor Film Festival to moderate the Q and A for the for the strange batch block as well as the brand new WTF block that they have debuting this year.
Speaker 3:So, catch us out there for the Q&A session. Very excited to be partnering up and getting to do this with them. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:And then, as for what's next here on ETI, join us. Well, so two big things really. Join us next week on the regular show, we're going to be looking back at August films that have been released. In the midst of all these horror films, we'll be talking about movies like Dee Dee, sing Sing, blink Twice and the remake of the Crow, which then, of course, pairs perfectly with our live event, Garbage Night event, garbage night. So a final reminder to come out and hang out with us tonight at edison square will, where we will be hosting a live watch along of the 90s cult classic, the crow. Trust me, you don't want to feel left out next week when we are recapping all the fun. So just come out, be a part of it yourself and help us support the grand cinema. A proceed of all food and drink sales. Tonight we'll go directly to the grand in their Save the Grand Capital campaign. Max, it's time for us to like. We got to get into the makeup chair.
Speaker 2:I know right, Did you get your black trench coat Black?
Speaker 1:trench coat. We need a wig, we need the face paint.
Speaker 2:I'm going to have a crow on my shoulder.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good, that's a good bit. Yeah, that's really good. Just feeding it some rad fries all night, I like that. But no, that's, that's gonna be a lot of fun. And then I'm I'm kind of excited to just go back next week too and recap some of these other august releases. I think we've kind of been again, I keep saying, like a prisoner of the moment, but just like, inject me with all this horror genre stuff. But also like my guy colman domingo I'm hearing best actor buzz for him from sing sing so really excited to look at some of these indies yeah, lots of movies, lots of movies.
Speaker 2:They just keep coming they just keep coming I think the homework's gonna slow down. It's not, I love it.
Speaker 1:Um. And then just I want to give just like a little personal note um, lost a few pretty iconic screen legends here recently, so just a shout out uh, gina rollins rest in peace um go watch them exactly woman under the influence.
Speaker 2:Go check it out.
Speaker 1:And then elaine delon, um amazing french actor who I've really been getting into over the past couple of years and just watched one of his films, one of his most iconic roles this past week for the first time Purple Noon Guess what? I had no idea that there had been a Talented Mr Ripley adaptation before the Talented Mr Ripley in 1999.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that either.
Speaker 1:It's an amazing film, purple Noon. Purple Noon Can stream it on the Criterion channel. Dope Awesome stuff there, so just wanted to get that in there before we close out here. So until next time, follow excuse the intermission on instagram and the three of us derrick's on letterbox, so find him, track what we are watching between shows and we will talk to you next time on eti, where movies still matter.
