Excuse the Intermission
Alex and Max take you on a journey through film with this discussion podcast about movies.
Excuse the Intermission
Beetlejuice Bettlejuice + Tim Burton's Career Retrospective
What magic happens when the legendary Michael Keaton and fresh talent Jenna Ortega collide in Tim Burton's latest Beetlejuice film? Join us as guest host Erica Crouse helps uncover the layers of this reboot, from the excitement of practical effects to the pitfalls of its overstuffed narrative. Together, we dissect how Keaton's reprisal of the iconic role and Ortega's fresh energy attempt to resuscitate the franchise, even as we critique the film's jumbled storylines and tonal inconsistencies.
Get ready for an all-encompassing journey through Tim Burton's career as we unveil our top 10 Hall of Fame entries, complete with honorable mentions and surprising misses. From the zany "Mars Attacks!" to the heartfelt "Big Fish" and the hauntingly beautiful "Sweeney Todd," we traverse the eclectic landscape of Burton's oeuvre. Concluding with a discussion on why Beetlejuice 2 marks a critical turning point, we reflect on his career highs and lows while speculating on the future gems Burton might create with his regained momentum.
how's it? I'm alex mccauley, I'm max fosford and this is excuse the intermission a discussion show surrounding tim burton. Tim burton's latest film, beetlejuice. Beetlejuice is number one at the box office and giving us a chance to chat about one of the more peculiar directorial careers in hollywood over the last 30 plus years. Max and I are not alone in studio today, so we will introduce our guest host for this episode and begin the Tim Burton Hall of Fame conversation on the other side of this break. This episode is presented in partnership with the Gig Harbor Film Festival. The Gig Harbor Film Festival will take place this September 26th through the 29th in beautiful Gig Harbor, washington Hosted at the Galaxy Uptown Theater.
Speaker 2:This year's festival will feature 85 wildly rich films from across an array of genres. This year's festival will showcase five world premieres, one US premiere and 48 Washington state premieres, while also bringing films from 13 different countries to Gig Harbor. The festival opens with the world premiere of the Dogfather, the Legacy of Don James, which chronicles a time in history that changed Washington Husky football forever.
Speaker 1:This year's attendees will enjoy exclusive premiere screenings, Q&A sessions following the film blocks and, for VIP pass holders, an immersive all-access experience, including epic parties and events throughout the four days. Digital programs are available now via the festival's website and for more information on scheduling, VIP passes and general admission tickets, please head over to wwwgigharborfilmcom. You can also follow the festival on Instagram at Gigharbor Film.
Speaker 2:All right Max, we're back and we're actually running it back this is our second attempt at this pod uh leave it to tim burton to have some ghostly figure come in here and fuck our sd card.
Speaker 1:Yeah that was weird, so we already have recorded about a two hour long pod some of the best stuff we've ever put on mic. I must say, um, with the help of the lovely Erica Krause, who is joining us in studio, who's still joining- us in studio. She was witness to this heartbreak that we all just experienced it was really good stuff.
Speaker 1:And so what we're doing now is we didn't want to leave empty handed, still wanted to get some Tim Burton and Beetlejuice content out there for you guys, and so we're going to do a quick run through, basically, of beetlejuice beetlejuice talk about the film strengths, its successes and also its weaknesses. And then, since we've already gone through tim burton's entire career and we've chosen our 10 hall of fame inductees, we're going to run through those, tell you guys the films that we, that we selected, and then we'll also go through, we'll do the honorable mentions and we'll talk about the ones that just flat out don't work for us, sure, um? So just kind of a quick, a quick rundown here of beetlejuice. Beetlejuice film opened up this past weekend and was quite the success actually 145 million dollars worldwide.
Speaker 1:Um, it's a return to form for the beetlejuice character, played, of course, by michael keaton, the character one of the characters I'd say that he's maybe most known for it's. It's up there for the guy. Um, a lot of life has been infused into this franchise because of the additions from folks like jenna ortega and tim burton is back in the spotlight, the whole reason why we're doing this podcast. What did you two think of the film. Just kind of give me your quick hitting notes from it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I saw it yesterday with my dad and it was good. I liked it but I didn't love it, and this is coming from a huge beetlejuice fan. So I think that maybe, compared to some of his last few movies, I think it was a lot better and it kind of, you know, we picked up on a very beloved character and I think it was good, but there was just a little bit of a miss for me, just the plot, but um, I think overall it was like I give it a three and a half out of five yeah, that's kind of how I was feeling about too.
Speaker 2:It's. It's fun, yet overstuffed. There's way too many stories going on throughout the film. Um, you get to see a lot of the underworld, which is really fun. A lot of practical stuff comes back into play. You know we're getting away from a lot of the CGI heavy films that maybe he was doing in the mid 2000s and mid 2010s. Michael Keaton is, you know, really good as this character. Eaton is really good as this character. I think we kind of talked about how maybe he is like the only one who could ever play Beetlejuice Kind of perfect casting. Jenna Ortega is really good and kind of connects to a new generation of fans for this franchise.
Speaker 2:Is it something that we needed or wanted? I don't know. Is it a little bit of a nothing burger Kind of? Is there going to be a third one? I bet you. But yeah, I thought it was a little. Just too many characters, too much going on. It's almost as if they took every idea that they've had the last 36 years for a beetle beetlejuice sequel and put it into this movie, and so, you know, I think you'll go in, you'll have some laughs, you'll have some groans, but, uh, I, I saw it on thursday.
Speaker 1:It feels like I saw it three years ago and this is kind of the the trouble with a lot of legacy sequels, which we're we're paying very close attention to, um just because they are so present in modern movie making. Now it seems like a an easy way to turn a profit is to find some beloved ip that, yes, maybe did it need to be rejuvenated, and then you revitalize it in however many different ways you can. A lot of the different things that have gone into making this film successful we just touched on very briefly. Another one is that it's just, it's a fun, family friendly, spooky movie and it's coming out at the right time. So it has a bunch of different things going for it. Ultimately, it's maybe not his most successful film. However, it was one that made our Hall of Fame list. We'll get into the reason why when we get to that film. The first movie, however, that we introduced was the original Beetlejuice, erica, one of your favorite films of all time. What more can you say?
Speaker 3:I mean, it's just, it's a cult classic, it's so good, it's just got the right mood to it. It's very, you know, it's just a good like weird spooky movie and I think that's probably why I liked it so much growing up is because I love Halloween and it feels like, almost like.
Speaker 3:It feels, I mean, everyone's in costume and it just you know it's like ghosts and the undead and like I love that, you know, and it's just Michael Keaton, it's got an amazing cast. Catherine O'Hara is just unbelievable. We get a young Winona Ryder. It's just a weird spooky, I don't know. I was trying to think about, like, why I like it so much when I was re-watching it the other day and I just I don't know why, like I, I think it's just a vibe, you know it's like a very vibey movie, like I, I don't know the next film that we inducted into the hall of fame was 1999 or 1990s edward scissorhands, max.
Speaker 1:This is almost like the. A lot of different filmmakers have told a story like this, but this is burton's ultimate tale of like the outsider looking in and then ultimately realizing that it's not so important to be accepted by everyone else, but to be okay with who you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very sweet movie I I think burton's biggest like film creed, right that runs through all his filmography is like it's okay to be weird, uh, and this is the shining example of that that story or that theme, so uh and and again, like just beautiful production design, a lot of choreography, whether it's the cars pulling out or being at the barbecue or whatnot, and a great cast of character actors popping in, popping out.
Speaker 2:Vincent Price this is the first time we really see him reach back into his childhood and bring one of his heroes into his films which he does over and over again, at least in the 90s and brings that horror element to it. So yeah, edward Scissorhands, I cannot talk today.
Speaker 1:We're all a bit flustered right now has.
Speaker 2:Uh is just a, a tim burton classic, so I I think it has to, has to go in the next film that we inducted after some debate was batman returns erica.
Speaker 1:I thought you made some great points earlier. If you just want to kind of go back through those another one that you said, it's just kind of a vibe, and more of a vibe when it fits tim burton, not necessarily the batman franchise yeah, um, I just well, I guess, when I re-watched batman and batman returns and just comparatively, batman just feels very like okay, this, this was fine, we're're introducing Michael Keaton as Batman.
Speaker 3:But Batman Returns just felt very Tim Burton Like. It was just like he didn't hold back, whereas the first one just kind of felt a little restrained. And Batman Returns just had you have this like gorgeous set design and it's just like crazy, and you have Michael Keaton just really fully in it as Batman. And then we, yeah, this is a definite Burton film and I love that.
Speaker 1:I think it just he really found his momentum with those movies. Give me your Catwoman hierarchy between Zoe Kravitz and Hathaway and Michelle Pfeiffer.
Speaker 3:I think it definitely goes Michelle Pfeiffer first, anne Hathaway, zoe Kravitz.
Speaker 1:Chronological. You got the same.
Speaker 2:You know, I think I throw Zoe Kravitz above Anne.
Speaker 1:Hathaway, really, she's bottom of your list, she's top of mine. The next film, that we inducted the fourth film into the Tim Burton Hall of Fame Max, one of your favorites, Ed Wood.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ed Wood, a movie about making movies kind of is a biographical film about what Tim Burton's career will become. Right, it's about, you know, this Ed Wood, who is touted as the worst film director of all time. He makes these schlocky horror movies. So it's got a great, it's just a great blend of Tim Burton's but then also a prestigious, you know biographical, oscar worthy film. Uh, and really good writing, really good performances. Uh. Martin Landau wins the Oscar this year for portraying Bela Lugosi, the oscar this year for portraying bella lugosi, another horror icon, much like vincent price, brought into burton's uh filmography.
Speaker 1:So one of my absolute favorites, shot in beautiful black and white as well the next film that we inducted was yellow for a long time, meaning it was on the fringe, we weren't too sure about it and then we finally decided that Mars attacks should go in, basically based on the fact that it's a yes and movie.
Speaker 1:Tim Burton is doing a lot of different things.
Speaker 1:He's paying homage to 50s and 60s alien invasion movies, twilight Zone episodes things that you can tell influenced his unique brand of weirdness, things that you can tell influenced his unique brand of weirdness.
Speaker 1:And yet he's also kind of critiquing and satirizing not only the American government in real time and at an interesting time when not too many people were doing that just because there wasn't a whole lot of low-hanging fruit back in the American politics or political system, but he's also critiquing the big action blockbuster of the 1990s, and this is at a time when those movies really were running wild at the box office without the presence of Marvel or big superhero IP dominating the culture, and so an interesting movie in the way that he decided to present it, but then also just a bonkers movie, with these rabid aliens and human heads on dogs and all kinds of just hijinks and an incredibly stacked cast, and so one that I think has its pros and cons, for sure. That's why it was yellow for a long time, but we ultimately put it in. Yeah, the next film that we inducted, a consensus favorite from all of us Sleepy Hollow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just so good.
Speaker 2:It's just a classic Again, a perfect blend of an existing story or IP mixed with Burton's flavor, his aesthetic. Mixed with Burton's flavor, his aesthetic. It works so well for him to do a gothic horror set in the 1800s, about a horseman with a huge sword that wears all black and cuts other people's heads off. It's just, it's kind of what? The kind of film that I think he almost kind of chases the rest of his career Well, and something too that I think we all really of chases the rest of his career.
Speaker 1:Well, and something, too, that I think we all really like and appreciate about this movie and what works so well is that the the version of sleepy hollow that we get in this movie, the portrait, the portrayal of the Ichabod crane character. That's really more of like this investigator crane in this movie, played by Johnny Depp. That's kind of like who we now know and who we associate the Sleepy Hollow story and myth and legend with, because it was just basically a story. There had been some Disney cartoons, there had been other versions of the story told, but this is kind of the the definitive Sleepy Hollow adaptation, so that it's different from doing something like batman, for instance. The next film that we put in um that I think was probably the highest on all of our lists collectively was 2003's big fish yeah, um, yeah, I think it's just.
Speaker 3:That's one of my all-time favorite movies. I would almost rank it higher than Beetlejuice. It's, it's just a beautiful dreamy, just. It's a love story. I mean it's just, you've got fantasy, you've got a little bit of humor in there. I think Ewan McGregor was just an amazing choice and I think earlier we were kind of mentioning it was. It was a little nice break from johnny depp. I don't know, that I would have loved to see he was busy yeah, it's got like a little bit of a different cast going like.
Speaker 3:we have albert finney, who's just so just. He is a great addition to the cast and I think that he added a lot of heart to the movie. And then Jessica Lange, billy Crudup, who was the other oh, marion Buscemi shows up.
Speaker 2:Someone that you would think is like in almost all Burton movies. But I think this is the only one he shows up in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love it because it just feels like a warm blanket. It really has a lot of heart to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, feels like a warm blanket. It is. It really has a lot of heart to it. Yeah it, you know, burton I I firmly believe burton is is best when he is, you know, making something from the heart his father had just passed away. This is very much a movie about fathers and sons, that relationship that that you have with with your father figure, and the stories that are told and they turn into myths and legends and you know, uh, and just the way you visualize who your dad is. So, uh, beautiful, beautiful movie.
Speaker 1:Another film that's beautiful and a very different way. Um is the next film that made our hall of fame list and that's Sweeney Todd, the demon barber of fleet street. Beautifully violent, a musical unlike any other musical really like this and sleepy hollow or is only two R rated films, and this one certainly goes for it, Personal favorite of mine, right there with sleepy hollow as my favorite. Tim Burton film just never really connected to a musical like this before. Their performances. They're great, they're outrageous.
Speaker 1:Sacha Baron Cohen is having so much fun in this movie. Just love the way that the blood looks on screen. Love how Johnny Depp, even though and we talked about this on the Lost recording how Johnny Depp, even though and we talked about this on the Lost recording even though he's really not a great singer, it's still fun to watch Johnny Depp try to sing and sing while murdering people in a barber's chair. So it's got a lot going for it. And also, too, something that we didn't really mention earlier. But good casting, almost stunt casting, but in a way that doesn't feel too hokey when you think about johnny depp being edward scissorhands so many years earlier and then giving him another shot at having these like razor blades in his hand wow yeah fun stuff.
Speaker 1:Um, demented, but, but fun stuff. Uh, then. Then we went to frank and weenie for our next entry. Um, but, but, max, you made a good point. Having just like a movie that's strictly animated in the hall of fame, we felt was important yeah, because, uh, you know we're not.
Speaker 2:We had a big, long conversation about nightmare before christmas and how, even though it was billed as tim burton's nightmare before christmas, it's his story, it's's his characters and he wrote he has a writing credit, a writing credit and a story by credit. However, it's directed by Henry Selleck, who is a god of stop-motion animation, and so we came to the consensus that Not going to take that away from him. Yeah, it's not going to take that away from him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not going to go.
Speaker 2:It'll be in the Henry Selleck Hall of Fame one day, but not going to be in the Tim Burton Hall of Fame. So I think it is important even though again, like it's very murky with this Nightmare Before Christmas situation that Burton gets some sort of animated film and the only time he ever does animation is stop motion. So frank and weenie, I think, is the better of the two that he's done all right.
Speaker 1:And then the final film that we entered um was beetlejuice beetlejuice and erica. You made a great point, so if you would be so kind as to reiterate why we decided to close out the Hall of Fame with the second Beetlejuice entry.
Speaker 3:So earlier we talked about it was kind of a debate on whether or not to add this, because it's not a great movie, but it did kind of like. It feels like a little bit of a revival of his career, because Dumbo came out in 2019. And I don't think that movie did great. I didn't see it, but we had a lot of success with Wednesday, and everyone was talking about Wednesday. It is a great show. Jenna Ortega killed it Day. It is a great show. Jenna Ortega killed it. And then we, very shortly after that, are announcing that Beetlejuice 2 is in the making with her in it, and it's just, it works. I think that it's we're seeing this you know, new Beetlejuice fandom, I guess and so I think it deserved to be on there, just because it feels like it's kind of bringing him back in a way, even though he really hasn't been gone, but he just hasn't been making great movies.
Speaker 1:Right. I mean, when you look back at, our last entry was Frankenweenie and that comes out in 2012. Well, he has three other films in between that and Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice Big Eyes, which was a hard no from us Pretty boring.
Speaker 1:Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children, which I quite enjoy, and we had Yellow for a little while, but not all that successful and or memorable, and then Dumbo. So really that's like a decade of just not being relevant, and so this is a huge launch for him back into relevancy. And it's not like we're talking about. You know so many directors who, who got their start in the 80s and 90s, were already quite old, and if they're making movies now, you don't really know how many more they have left in them. We could still have four or five potentially high quality films from Tim Burton still to come, if he rides the momentum off of Beetlejuice Beetlejuice in the right way yeah, I think also it's a great bookend to to have Beetlejuice as as the beginning, beetlejuice, beetlejuice as the as the end.
Speaker 2:You know, those, those two movies really kind of represent Tim Burton. And then everything in between is various adventures that he went on and different endeavors Endeavor, endev, endeavors. Sorry, beetle just took control of me there. So yeah, tim Burton, what a weirdo.
Speaker 1:Some of those other endeavors that we we thought about putting in, we toyed with, were Peewee's big adventure. We ultimately decided that Beetlejuice should be, uh, the the first real entry point into the hall of fame career for him. Although we understand Peewee Herman iconic character movie that a lot of people love, we thought about putting the first Batman in Batmanman. Forever just made more sense to us batman returns, batman returns, thank you.
Speaker 1:Um, we haven't done the joel schumacher, no no, no fame yet, um, and then we we thought about corpse bride for a minute and that was tied in very heavily to the nightmare before christ discussion. Ultimately, we felt like corpse bride was him trying to do a cover song version of the nightmare before Christmas. That left a weird taste in our mouth and so we decided that, frankenweenie being a more personal project to him, that was one of his early short films. So, returning to that, and then what Max talked about, with it being the, the, the, we wanted to represent animation. So Corpse Riders on the outside looking in. Erica is a big fan of Dark Shadows. Do you want to give? Give us a second on Dark Shadows.
Speaker 3:I just have to say that it's like it's so funny I don't know why and make me like someone's going to watch, like listen to this and watch. I'm like, oh, I'm going to give it a shot and they're going to watch it and be like what the hell are you talking about? But it really makes me laugh. But it's just my kind of dry humor.
Speaker 2:And it's just the. It's not a great movie, but maybe give it a shot. It's just a real nice nice like comedic little tidbit that tim burton gave us, but also like very tim burtony too right, like very gothic horror and it totally is. Yeah, yeah, it's a good.
Speaker 3:It's a good like michelle pfeiffer's. In it we have eva green. I mean it's it's good.
Speaker 1:I like it and much in the same way that erica likes dark shadows for reasons that sometimes maybe she can or cannot explain. I feel the same way about miss likes dark shadows for reasons that sometimes maybe she can or cannot explain. I feel the same way about Miss Peregrine's home for peculiar children. This is an adaptation of a young adult fiction book and that stars Eva green. So right there I'm in. But it's a fun, kind of like X-Man meets groundhogs day type of story where these kids with supernatural abilities are stuck in this time loop and they have to figure out a way to get out of it. So a fun movie there, one that I can recommend but that ultimately did not make the list as far as 10 best for Tim Burton. And then, yeah, we just had to cut a couple of out. Dumbo was a no from us, big Eyes was a no from us. The Alice in Wonderland remake, along with the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory remake, both nos and the Planet of the Apes remake is a no from us.
Speaker 1:So you can see just in that that there's times when we feel like Tim Burton is very creative, very original, super passionate about his work and those movies. Always they always hit. When you look at something like Edward, scissorhands, frank and Weenie, the way that he pours his entire aesthetic and style into something like Sleepy Hollow, that's awesome. When he goes for I don't want to say when he goes for the paycheck, but when he chases the dragon of, like iconic hollywood ip, most of the time it's not working for him yeah, so it's just an interesting pattern.
Speaker 2:It's true, he, you know, and I think it also shows that he was really a filmmaker made for the 80s and 90s, right, like that. That is his wheelhouse and that style of filmmaking when you had to do, you know, you had to cut corners and be practical and, uh, use physical, you know, special effects and build sets and also, like, when we're not like sucking on the teat of ip, like he is, he is a genius. Later, into the two thousands and 2010s, you know, things get a little out of control with some of those films.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he loses it a bit. Yeah, so an interesting guy. I mean, I'm sure you have your own favorites of his. Let us know what they are. Thanks for listening to the, the nitty gritty, the, the abridged the abridged version of our Hall of Fame discussion. Erica, thanks so much for doing this twice with us today, anytime.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, we'd love to have you back soon because, as we talked about Beetlejuice Beetlejuice kind of being the official kickoff for spooky season. It's been a great year for horror already, but we know there's more out there that you're excited to see and that's coming down the pike very soon. So until next time, follow Excuse the Intermission on Instagram and the three of us on Letterboxd to track what we are watching between shows, and we will talk to you next time on ETI, where movies still matter.
