Excuse the Intermission
Alex and Max take you on a journey through film with this discussion podcast about movies.
Excuse the Intermission
LIVE at the Gig Harbor Film Festival: Insights from Directors, Actors, and Crew
Ever wondered what it takes to direct young actors authentically? Join us as we chat with Rachel Taggart, writer and director of "Hold my Hair," and Joe Carstensen, the script supervisor. Rachel opens up about her unique approach to nurturing young talent, while Joe shares her enlightening first-time experience in a predominantly female film crew. This segment is a must-listen for anyone interested in the behind-the-scenes dynamics of working with sensitive topics and young performers.
Transitioning genres can be a labyrinth of challenges, but the creators of "Last Scene" navigate it with finesse. Our conversation spans the intricate journey from horror to drama, delving into the compelling allure of film noir aesthetics. Discover the vital role of collaboration and how focusing on specific roles can enhance a film’s quality. Plus, get an insider’s look at the excitement of hosting Q&As and late-night film batches at the festival, offering a glimpse into the vibrant festival culture.
Our deep dive continues with Ayanna Berkshire, co-lead of "The Way We Speak," who shares her meticulous process for character preparation and handling pre-performance nerves. Her insights are a treasure trove for actors and filmmakers alike. We also catch up with Lauren Musgrove, director of "Ugly Sweater," as she highlights the importance of a solid support system and infusing personal elements into her work. Finally, we offer a heartfelt thank you to the Gig Harbor Film Festival team and preview some exciting upcoming content, ensuring you’ll want to stay tuned to Excuse the Intermission.
How's it? I'm Alex McCauley and this is Excuse the Intermission a discussion show surrounding movies Ahead. On this episode, you will hear a compilation of interviews that myself and Max conducted at the 2024 Gig Harbor Film Festival. We want to express our gratitude and appreciation to everyone who joined us on the mics this past weekend and, of course, a huge thank you to the Gig Harbor Film Festival for inviting us back to hold these conversations with the filmmakers. We will be sure to tag the folks who we spoke to in the social media posts for this episode so that you can search out their work and follow in their journey, but for now, enjoy the interviews that begin on the other side of this short break.
Speaker 2:Hello listeners. We are here with Rachel Taggart and Joe Carstensen.
Speaker 3:No close Carstensen.
Speaker 2:Joe Carstensen. Perfect With the film. Hold my Hair, rachel, you are the writer and director.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 2:Joe, you served as the script supervisor on set, so fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us today and taking some time out of your busy day. Thank you, Of course. First question I have is working with younger actors can always be kind of difficult. However, in your guys' film, it's obvious. It's obviously obvious that you have some, some pretty talented young actors. What was the process of finding that young talent and then nurturing it and and really controlling it for a great performance on on the set?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a great question and I realized that I think every short film I have made has had a young person in it. It's kind of my thing, but certainly casting this. I'm quite specific as a director in what I'm looking for in actors and I know it when I see it. Know it when I see it and because it's two young girls in this film who have quite a longstanding relationship and that then shifts into a different gear, it was important to find people who are going to be able to authentically portray that age and one of my actresses is for was 14 at the time and the other one was 18, um, so the kind of different stages in life really, um, but they we definitely did a, a callback with a chemistry read, essentially to see how they would kind of click and it was very much as a director allowing them to form the friendship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine that sort of setting the pace to their relationship that we see on screen is only half of what you need to do as far as making sure, because even as like intimacy, coordination goes in a few scenes, I'm sure that those are discussions that are happening well before you ever call action.
Speaker 4:Absolutely yeah, and we did have an intimacy coordinator on on set for that Um. It is very much talking about what they feel comfortable with. Um, and it was quite interesting feel comfortable with and it was quite interesting. The 14 year old's mother, of course, was on set with us and she when we were filming. There's a kiss scene in it. When we filmed that, the mom was saying, oh my God, that's beautiful, it was beautiful.
Speaker 4:She really enjoyed that moment so it was kind of special that she was a part of it and was behind it and understood why and yeah, that's so amazing.
Speaker 2:Uh, joe, as a script supervisor, is it easier or harder? Because as a script supervisor, you're you're keeping track of of what's being shot and whatnot. Do you find it easier or harder with young people?
Speaker 3:I'm not sure that there was any sort of difference because there were young people on set, but the big difference that I did notice was so the majority of our crew cast and crew were women, so we had almost a completely all-female set, which was really, really cool. And this was my first time doing script supervising and I absolutely loved it. I love the organization, the highlighters, that's so my jam. But because it was kind of my first time doing that, I don't think I realized how blessed I was to have an experience like that.
Speaker 3:We talked about it a bit on set because I think, being surrounded in an environment where, even as more of a newbie, I also, you know, just finished school and this idea that you can be bringing ideas to the table and people are collaborating and they want to know your ideas and you know you're bouncing, you know what if we tried this and we could do this and do you want that? And so it was really cool to just be around that and be in that energy. I think that was really rare where there's just so much support. And because it is also a female centered story, right Like our two leads, our two young girls, kind of learning and who they are in this world. I think that really helped with the energy that.
Speaker 3:I am excited I haven't seen it yet. Um so when I see it on the big screen, I'm I'm excited to see how that kind of translates through.
Speaker 1:Well, Rachel, I'm sure you love hearing that answer Um as as the director I compare it to. You are like the instructor of a classroom, almost, and so not only having young actors, but first time people working on your set, how do you go about or I guess, when in your career did you really feel comfortable, sort of like leading a group of adults and young people on set?
Speaker 4:Well, I have only been directing for two years. So I've been an actress for 35 years and just directing for the past two years and in fact Hold my Hair was the third film I had ever directed. Wow. But I as an actor, I knew what kind of directors I wanted to work with. So as a director, I very much try to be the director who I would like to work with.
Speaker 5:As a director.
Speaker 4:I very much try to be the director who I would like to work with, and I do. You know, I don't know everything, I don't have all of the ideas and a monopoly on that. So why would I be closed off to hearing other people's ideas? Because for me, filmmaking is character and story, and if we're not advancing the story or developing character, then what are we doing Right?
Speaker 1:what are we doing Exactly?
Speaker 4:And I am not the only person who has a great idea of how to develop this story. And so one of the young actresses said how about if I said this at the end? Great, wonderful. The AD would say come to me and say I wonder if, how about if we, you know, transition from this scene to the next with this? Great, thank you, awesome, thank you, awesome. Um, and so it's a, it's a living, breathing organism. The script it changes, um, even on set, based on other people's ideas, and that's.
Speaker 4:I love collaboration, I love the collaborative field of what we do. It's, you know, we're not in a vacuum, so I try and bring people on who either know more than me or or, at the very least, are really good at what they do, and therefore I don't have to worry about that, because I can let them go off and you know, or that they're brand new at what they're doing, but I see something in them. Then I know that they're brand new at what they're doing, but I see something in them. Then I know that they're going to be able to rise to that challenge. And so it's about, as a producer and as a director, it's about giving opportunities, perhaps where somebody hadn't seen that as being something that they would either want to do or be able to do.
Speaker 1:I think opportunity is the most valuable thing we can give in this life, really not even on a film set. So that's a great answer when you're. So, in talking about this film, in particular this set shooting in a house, first I want to know how did you come to find the house that you were in and then speak to kind of how blocking and how lighting and how that works when you are in a fixed location like that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I mean. So my the actress who plays the mom. It was her house, so she very kindly.
Speaker 4:Let us take it over for three days, which was wonderful. I had an amazing gaffer for and when I was talking with her before we shot she herself um, that she. I paint with light and I loved that and she absolutely did. There's shots in this film. There's a shot at the top of the stairway, where they're. You're looking down the staircase and this can see the shadow of the rails on the wall. That was all done day for night light. It was all light and it's like it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:I know exactly the shot you're talking about. It's very memorable.
Speaker 4:And even I just yeah, just those sort of things that she created, that is amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic. Uh, when did the itch to direct? Because you said you were an actor when did that itch to direct and get behind the camera? Start for you.
Speaker 4:I think I've always known that I was going to direct at some point and I think you know, when I started, I took a 12-year sabbatical. When we moved out to the States, I took my 12-year sabbatical, as I call it, from acting and then got back into it at the beginning of 2019. And then in 2020, co-produced my first short film, which I also acted in. And then I we Seattle has got a tiny market, Seattle has got a tiny market and I realized that if I didn't create work, then I'm waiting to receive permission from other people to work. And I just thought I guess I had a couple of ideas for stories and I thought I'm just going to write them down. And then actually, I think we can make them, and I think I can make them and I think I can direct them. And I joked yesterday in the Q&A that you know, working with young actors is less intimidating to me, but I've grown into being able to work with grown-ups in terms of directing and I think that's just an imposter syndrome thing of you know.
Speaker 4:That's just an imposter syndrome thing of you know. Are they going to look at me and think I'm a complete nutter or something?
Speaker 2:I don't know if that feeling goes away.
Speaker 3:Probably not yeah, yeah. I think it's almost braver, though I mean to work with children you're working with malleable minds, right, like that's such a much bigger risk at least in my opinion when, know, when you're working with seasoned actors, you know if you ask them to do something or if you're directing them in a way that doesn't work for them. They probably know themselves well enough to advocate for themselves. But by choosing to work, by allowing yourself to work with young people, I mean, I think that's much scarier, truthfully, yeah.
Speaker 3:I would agree with that, Jo how did you come to filmmaking? How did I come to filmmaking? Um, I, how did I come to filmmaking? I started out acting. I'm still acting, that's my main thing, but I of course, now found script supervising.
Speaker 3:But my mother is a high school theater teacher, so enough said there full stop so as a young kid she would throw me up on stage and I'd be tree number three and whatever. So I became very comfortable performing at a young age and kind of went on to discover that I was going to be just like my mother and also love theater and film and all of that art, which was a big surprise. But yeah, I love it. So acting is kind of my main focus right now. My experience is mainly in the indie horror industry and I specialize in stage combat. That's what I love to do is fight scenes and slasher films and all that Very cool yeah.
Speaker 1:So for Hold my Hair. What's next? And where do you see this film? Um kind of living, and and who do you hope its audience ends up being?
Speaker 4:well, it's interesting. So we're almost at the end of our festival run now, um, and I have submitted to gig harbor film festival twice before and not got in, and so and I love that and we've still come and we've watched films and supported.
Speaker 4:You know, um, but to be in the film in this film festival this year is very, very special and um, and so hold my hair is coming towards the end. It's going to end up on my youtube channel, so do you know? It is a sweet, coming-of-age queer love story and at screenings many people in the queer community have come up to me and specifically said we love your film because it's this story of hope and innocence and it's a sweet queer story. It's not this hard-hitting, gritty, depressing.
Speaker 1:This is a story of hope yeah, it's a feel-good movie, is what it is.
Speaker 4:Yeah and and that has really struck me in um within the people who have seen it, who have spoken to me, have been very adamant about how special it is to them to have a film that represents their community in such a positive, sweet way. So I hope that the LGBTQ plus community will continue to enjoy it in a wider kind of sphere.
Speaker 1:That's so special. Well, thank you both so much for sharing your art with us here at the Gig Harbor Film Festival and taking the time out to talk to us on the mic.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you here with a couple of Gig Harbor Festival holdovers from last year. I don't know if you guys have even left Derek Schneider and Andrew Littlefield.
Speaker 8:It's like I say this every year. It's like summer camp. You go away, you come here, you meet new people, you make new friends and stuff. You bond over the films and everything that are here and then we all go our separate ways for the year. We do awesome stuff, do our creative thing.
Speaker 1:And then come back and share, and then we return next year and hang out and see all your old friends again. Very cool. Well, Andrew, it was great running into you the other day. How have you been?
Speaker 7:Been great. Yeah, I miss you guys so much. I couldn't wait to come back. I was counting the days off calendar at home where I'm just making X's every day and like oh my god, Gig Harbor's coming back.
Speaker 6:It's happening soon so.
Speaker 7:But no, it's always great to come out here and I met so many great people last year and, yeah, I just. It makes me, gets me motivated to make films every year, so I'm excited to, and I have a project done for, ready for Next Year too.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's fantastic. Tell us about the film that you have in the festival this year.
Speaker 7:So this is an older film I did called Last Scene. It's in the To Be Human block, so it's a film noir about a screenwriter who's trying to write a murder mystery and as he is writing the story we kind of transition from modern day to film noir. So it's very much. I don't know if you've seen American Fiction recently. It's where the scene is playing out in front of him. So I don't know if they stole my idea, if they saw last scene or like hey, I like that.
Speaker 7:But no, it was cool to see that and I'm excited to have it as part of this festival. It looks amazing on the big screen in this theater, so hopefully everyone comes out and checks it out.
Speaker 2:That's very cool. What were some of the challenges or differences? Because usually you do, or at least the films that we've seen from you in the past, have been kind of more in the horror genre. Yes, what's the biggest difference of going to kind of something more drama based.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I've always loved interesting characters and I feel like all genres have that ability to create unique and fun characters that people can fall in love with and I feel film noir is right up there with horror as far as cool characters that can be developed and witty dialogue and having a femme fatale character, having a private detective interwoven with just the cool aesthetics and ambiance of film noir. I just love that. The visuals of film noir. I just love that the visuals of film noir are character themselves the costumes, the lighting, and it was just. I love any genre where you can develop and create unique characters that people are just so fascinated with.
Speaker 7:It was an easy kind of transition but because I create these characters, being a screenwriter, I like to have that part of it as well. So I feel like, because I'm creating these characters, because I'm writing the dialogue, I want to make them fun for people to watch.
Speaker 1:So, as you're putting more notches in your belt, film after film, is there a certain part of the filmmaking process that you feel like you're really starting to nail down, like whether it's post-production, pre-production, what feels like it's almost a second language now?
Speaker 7:it feels like it's almost a second language.
Speaker 7:Now I feel like directing is so important and that's kind of where I've gravitated towards for most of my films and having the opportunity to work on a project where I have full reins on directing, because I just love working with actors and having characters that when we get on set there's there's dialogue there.
Speaker 7:But then collaborating and working with actors that can bring their own energy, bring their own style to the character I love that, that bouncing of ideas off of others that love the character and want to be a part of it. But then they were like, hey, let's do this instead of this. I'm like, yes, I like that, no, I don't, let's go with this instead. So I feel like directing has just become second nature to me because of that process, because I feel that I am able to collaborate with actors, I'm able to welcome criticism, I'm able to welcome their style. It makes for a better product in the end because you have people that are good at what they do. They need direction, but they can bring a lot of their own style to the project, which I embrace.
Speaker 1:Well, it makes sense. You're such a personable guy, but then also, too, I think people do forget that a director is almost like the teacher of a classroom, like you do have to be able to work with all these different sorts of personalities.
Speaker 7:So, yeah, commend you for that work, thank you, thank you, and I think, as I work on more projects, I also understand I've worn so many hats that it's not fun to wear so many hats.
Speaker 7:So, it's with my latest project that we just finished wearing just one hat. It was so nice because I had, you know, a DP, I had a script supervisor, I had a producer that handled all the paperwork, and it's just like I just showed up on set, was able to create a shot list, was able to show it to the DP and they're like, yep, we'll go light it. So just having that.
Speaker 8:Yeah, you're really able to. I feel like it creates and I mean it, like with you know, any kind of project that has dedicated people at those positions when you don't have to. Like. I did this with my last short that I had done too, where I just wanted to direct, so I brought somebody that was going to be my DP so I didn't have to worry about setting up the camera.
Speaker 8:I could talk with my actors about, like, okay, here's what's coming up in this scene. I didn't have to worry about setting up the camera. I could talk with my actors about, like, okay, here's what's coming up in this scene. I didn't have to worry about moving lights because it just, you know, when you're focused on that and that and that it takes away your energy, like your focus, from the other aspects, and so trying to do everything yourself, I feel like, hurts projects more and you do it out of necessity because I, you know that's what I've done, like right coming up when max and I first started, it was just him and I like, when we did our first short, uh for a 72 hour competition and yeah, since then, learning that you know, passing those uh hats off to people that you, that you can trust and everything, yeah, changes the game for you.
Speaker 7:100 the quality will show in the end of yeah, like having all of those people involved and bringing their expertise, it just makes for a better product. Yep.
Speaker 1:And then, derek, talk a little bit about your involvement in the film festival. This year You're hosting a lot of Q&As, obviously involved with sort of the late night batch of films here, so if you could expand on that, yeah, so this year I had planned to have a film in the festival.
Speaker 8:Uh, as I've done every year since my first year here, I was like I need to just keep making films so I can keep coming back to this festival and hanging out with these people.
Speaker 8:Uh, I missed the deadline this year because a lot of life stuff was happening around that time and I wasn't able to do the reshoot for my project that I needed to get done. So when the deadline had passed, I reached out to Josh and asked him. I was like, hey, I told him I'm gonna miss the deadline this year. I won't have my film in it, but I really still. I love this festival so much I still want to be involved. Is there any way? Like I can you know, do the director series that we did on the Silver Screams podcast last year Last year we did leading up to the festival. This year we're doing sort of a post-wrap-up with some of the filmmakers who are here for the festival. And I also asked him. I was like would you be okay with us leading Q&As for the Strange Batch and their newly formed WTF Batch?
Speaker 2:Yeah, very cool, yeah, any films that you got to see last night in the Strange Batch that really stood out to you, bug Diner.
Speaker 8:It will really change your perspective on the world of insects and subterranean creatures.
Speaker 1:Yes, check that one out. You've been looking for a change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been looking for a change. I'm trying to cultivate a new outlook on bugs.
Speaker 1:You're not a catch-and-release kind of guy, not yet. It's definitely nothing like a bug's life.
Speaker 8:That and DOD was a fun one. The director of that film was in attendance and so he was at the Q&A last night was a fun one. And the filmmaker the director of that film was in attendance and so he was at the Q&A last night and getting to hear his story of how that film got made, because he had a plan for it to be like a little small thing. And when you watch that movie you're like how did you get all this? And yeah, definitely, if you meet him, ask him about that story.
Speaker 1:I will Absolutely Well. We want to thank the two of you for taking a little time out of your busy Saturday here to come and chat with us on the mics Happy festival.
Speaker 8:Happy festival, happy festival.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll see you guys around. All right, we're here with Ayanna Berkshire, the co-lead of the Way we Speak a fantastic feature film here at the Gig Harbor Film Festival. Max and I we both had the pleasure of speaking to you during two different Q&As, and so it's really fun now to be able to dive a little deeper with you, talk about the film, some more about the film, some more. Something that I was very curious about after seeing your performance in this film is kind of how you get into that headspace, how you prepare mentally for a role like this. Is there anything that you do before you go on screen to help maybe calm some nerves, get into the zone?
Speaker 10:I think the best thing for me is to recognize that those nerves have a purpose, and so I'm, you know, happy to bring nerves around with me. I was just thinking, I was like, you know, somebody made a comment about I didn't even see her as a black woman, which if you watch the film you'll notice I am a black woman and and I was like, yeah, I forget that I'm a black woman.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm just like a bag of guts walking around with a ton of nerves, and so that was a good compliment, though, that you sort of disappeared into the role. Is what that person was saying.
Speaker 10:Yes, yeah yes, absolutely, absolutely. And I again that's a testament to this awesome project and the way that Ian wrote it and how closely each of us, really each of the actors, related to the roles that we were cast in. And so I again going back to this idea of ritual or something that I might do beforehand, I just try to recognize that I am this bundle of nerves, and that's okay, because everyone is coming into the first day of filming and leading up to it, and so I think I try to lean into my own practice, my own craft. So I work on breathing, I work on script, I work on really getting into the backstory of my character. That's a great answer.
Speaker 10:You know what are my moments before? What scene are we in? And I think what's really interesting is that people so often assume that a film is shot chronologically, and it's not most of the time. We're very lucky if it is, and so the actor has a lot of work to figure out where they are in this place and time, and so I think maybe those moments that might be taken up with you had mentioned earlier putting the left sock on first we actually don't get the privilege of having a lot of those moments, because you have to realize, you have to remember where you're at. Okay, I'm coming into this set today. Everybody has their job that they're working on to be ready for the moment. So how am I ready for the moment and that's how I think I spend my time.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, preparing yeah, thank you for that answer do you ever write like backstories for your characters?
Speaker 10:yeah, you go into like their history absolutely decisions they've made you know, I think it's less about writing out an actual backstory. I might it may be like what? What are some key characteristics that define this person I love thinking about? Is this somebody who spreads the peanut butter on a piece of bread, or do they eat it right off of the spoon or the knife? Because those are two very specific personalities, and so if, If I decide, there's somebody that licks the knife right, maybe goes back into the peanut butter, I don't know Then I have a better understanding of how they might find themselves in different circumstances and then I can decide. Well, you know, maybe they're very artistic in their point of view and they feel like people should just be free and just do whatever they do and double dip into the peanut butter and double dip into the peanut butter.
Speaker 10:And so maybe they're a poet, and maybe they, you know. So maybe I'll write poetry from their point of view, or maybe I'll do an activity from their point of view, and I'll start to build my backstory that way and just give myself little little touch points. And so I think that maybe that same person who eats, all you know, the peanut butter off the knife, also has an issue with authority, and they are coming from a family that was very strict and they've had to fight their way out, or you know, whatever those things may be, and it may just that spark may be that peanut butter on that knife, and so, um, I can remember that I can remember they're a peanut butter, licking the peanut butter off the knife person and all of the things that that means.
Speaker 10:and so maybe then I'll, just like you know I'll I'll imagine myself with that that knife and that peanut butter, and it it's really a, you know, it's a statement and that gets to fuel that next moment, you know.
Speaker 1:So when watching this film, it's very clear that it was a collaborative process this was a singular vision by Ian, obviously but that he was extremely open and welcomed feedback from cast and crew. So when you think about the intent and the impact, the final impact of this film, now that you've seen it in a theater a few times with a live audience, what moments hit harder for you? Seeing it all put together? How do the emotions come out of you as an audience member when watching the film?
Speaker 10:I'm trying not to be critical. That's still one of my uh great faults, um, because I approach all films that I'm in very critically the first time I see them, uh now, and mostly for story, mostly for pacing how is this working? Um? Was the filmmakers um vision? Was I able to interpret that properly or in a way that read, and I'm very critical in that sense. Now I'm getting critical on how I look, which is very detrimental amazing costume.
Speaker 1:You were dressed fantastically in this film. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 10:Aaron Toft did an incredible job on all of the costumes throughout. I mean, you can just see the texture.
Speaker 6:It's like oh, that's cashmere, that's cool, that's golden, I mean it's so beautiful.
Speaker 10:Yeah, she did a terrific job. Again, shoestring budget, it was so impressive. But I think that now, as an audience member, I'm really able to appreciate how much each character I watch. Kaylee Rhodes, who's a dear friend of mine and so brilliant in this, which is her first feature, her first film. You know, she just has these moments where she's playing with her earlobe.
Speaker 10:Right she just has these moments where she's playing with her earlobe, right you know, brushing hair out of her face, taking a moment. I noticed this last time she says, oh thirst, and right before she takes a drink she like licks her lips. I'm like, yeah, I start to diminish all of those.
Speaker 1:There's a little nuances yeah.
Speaker 10:And so it's just so refreshing when you see people doing them on on the screen, because again brings you into the reality, into their reality, and so that's what I'm appreciating. Now. I'm just able to enjoy the performances that my friends gave on on screen because they're so beautiful and they're all really so committed to their characters, and I think without that, any story falls flat. But this story, which requires so much from its actors and characters to really believe and be committed to their points of view, that is just such a pleasure to watch.
Speaker 2:On any set. What kind of direction are you looking for? Are you hoping for what is good direction from an actor's perspective? Thank you for asking.
Speaker 10:That's such a huge thing for me. I've been thinking a lot about that, like what makes a great collaborator and a director, and I think that I look for someone who challenges me, who can recognize the work that I'm bringing and asks me to be better. As an actor who's been working, I've been performing since I was three years old and I had my first agent when I was 13. And the majority of my life I have spent in class working on my craft, and I don't expect a director to have taken all of those years of acting when someone recognizes that the people they have stepping on to set are trained professionals and that it is our job to make their characters come to life. And so I think open dialogues, asking for thoughts, is really great, and also stopping stopping to say that's not working right. I'm not believing that.
Speaker 10:I think that oftentimes especially I work with a lot of fresher directors have a fear of stopping when things aren't connecting, when there's not that electrical spark, and they either think it's them or it's it's. It's just it's too much to just say can we stop? You know why? Do you think this isn't working or do you feel this, or can we try it another way? Or do you have, um, any insight or thoughts or ideas? Because actors will give you whatever you want. You just have to know to ask for it.
Speaker 10:I love a director that builds a story. I love a director who has really given a lot of thought to the environment they are asking these people to inhabit, and the more they can build out that environment and make it real for us, we get to just live in that space, and I think that that's where the magic lies. I just, I really ask that directors, you know, take some acting classes so that they can see you know what the craft is about and become a part of that collaborative process on our side, because we're always asked to come over to the other side and collaborate.
Speaker 1:You're such a dynamic performer, one and then a great interviewee. I feel like we could just go on and on with this. I do want to switch gears, though, a little bit before we get you out of here. You are local to the area, to the Pacific Northwest, so what does it mean to you to bring a film like this to the area and then just kind of continue to work in the Pacific Northwest and try to put I mean, continue to put really Washington filmmaking sort of on the map?
Speaker 10:Thank you for asking, because I have so much pride being from the Pacific Northwest. I have fought really hard and I encourage other artists in the area to continue to fight. Build your craft here, go somewhere else, continue to build your craft, but we don't have to live in LA. I have lived in LA and I love LA. Live in LA, I have lived in LA and I love LA. I love working in LA. I love all of those things.
Speaker 10:But I also think that it's important to have quality of life and it's important to have balance. And for me, I find that in the Pacific Northwest, I'm building a home by hand with my partner on an island. We're making it work, and these last two years have been the busiest years of my career, with really excellent films, and I think that that is because we've been putting I've been, you know, putting life first and what it means to be human, what it means to be someone who's experiencing, who's building with their hands right and can really bring that truth to a performance. And so the Pacific Northwest has always been incredibly supportive and loving and it is filled with so many incredibly talented people and it's so often overlooked, and so I think I also have that like overlooked, stepchild mentality about the place where you, just you work harder.
Speaker 10:you're like I'm gonna show you all, and so what that means is the work comes to you in this really wonderful way and you don't have to compromise.
Speaker 10:You can say you know, I'm actually, I'm, I'm actually, you know, mastering my craft here and I could work anywhere. I choose to work here and I invite you to come here because there's there are so many riches that that can benefit you and your production. I just completed my very first Washington film. I've been Portland based for the majority of my career and so it was such a gift to be able to work in Washington, where I grew up and you know, to be able to have projects, you know, to screen a Gig Harbor Film Festival, to have projects screening here, is really wonderful for me. It makes me regret a little bit that my me and you know I bring my dad with me, who also passed, and he's very much present in the way we speak, because we all got to bring a little bit of our relationship with grief to that film, but it just it's. It's kind of immeasurable pride being able to work here.
Speaker 1:Incredible stuff. Ayanna, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day here to speak with us a little bit Amazing interview. I hope you have a great rest of the festival and see some inspiring work.
Speaker 10:Thanks to you too, and all the filmmakers out there and the audiences, for coming. It's just been such an incredible event and I'm overwhelmed by all of the support. It's really cool. So thank you, alex, and thank you Max.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 10:Bye.
Speaker 1:Okay, we are now delighted to be joined by Lauren Musgrove, the director of Ugly Sweater, a fantastic feature film here at the Tacoma Gig Harbor Film Festival.
Speaker 2:Careful. Yeah, that's a couple weeks.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for taking the time out to chat with us here on the podcast today.
Speaker 5:Yeah, thanks for having me, Thanks for seeing the film.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so, something that I think would help maybe us and our listeners get to know you a little bit better and it ties into the film. But the movie is so much about kind of like a single person support system, I feel like with the Ruby character. So I guess a two parter how much of you is in the Ruby character and then how much of you, how much do you lean on your support system when you're making a film?
Speaker 5:do you lean on your support system when you're making a film? Totally so, okay. First question how much of me is in Ruby? I don't know. Should I put a percentage number on it?
Speaker 5:It's funny though, because so I do a lot of documentaries, and there was like a moment in the creation process of this film where my producer was like is this going to be a hybrid film? Are we going to be like filming you, filming this? Like how meta are we getting with this? Like how much about you is it going to be? Um? And then I came up with the character of ruby.
Speaker 5:Uh, actually, like did some research into greta gerwig's process for ladybird um, and found out that that worked really well for me as like a vessel to share some of my feelings, but as a character that is not me and has differences for me and can be a character that other people can relate to. So it's not so personal, it's not so about me, it's like this separate thing that felt right for this story. So I don't know, maybe like 50%. And then my support system is very important. I guess, like the family in this film is partly based on my family. I did show them the film. They really liked it and kind of could probably see some of those connections that other people might miss um.
Speaker 1:And then in the credits my husband is listed as supportive husband I saw that a laugh come out of you when that shows up because, uh, his sister was sitting right next to me in the screening so and she's also in the credits.
Speaker 5:She helped helped us with some post-wrapout stuff. So, yeah, support systems are huge. I mean, it was great working with Deja, the lead actress of this. She really felt connected to the character and so that's why I just I felt like it was the right choice to make it purely fictional and have this character other people could connect to, because she is doing the acting thing out in LA and has experienced phases where she is so ambitious and going for her dreams and leaving behind friendships and relationships in order to chase those, and she's like I've done that and now she's more, she's grounded again and really cares about her family and friends. Now, in a way, I think maybe a couple of years ago she would have been different. Ago she would have been different, uh. So, yeah, support is very, very important, and the thing with anxiety is like your mind can trick you into thinking you don't have that support too. That's kind of what goes on in this film too, where, like, her parents really are there for her, but in her mind it doesn't seem that way right.
Speaker 1:The pacing of the film really presents them as the support system in the third act yes, yes yeah, it's really nice yeah, I wanted to ask about the animation.
Speaker 2:I'm such a huge fan of stop motion and I loved the parts of this film that went into stop motion. Can you take us kind of through the process of of creating those sequences?
Speaker 5:sure you mean like the technical process.
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean just like where does your love from stop motion come from? Why did you want to put that into the film? How?
Speaker 5:Right. So I have always loved animation. It's kind of a totally different beast than live action, so I'm still learning a lot about how the process of animation works. This was my first time working in it, directing it, without doing it myself, and I did a study abroad program in grad school at the Academy of Media Arts in Cologne, germany, and they have an animation program there that is fantastic. They have this huge studio and all these different table setups and they're pretty focused on stop motion. They also do digital stuff, but a lot of stop motion. So I got my hands dirty there and actually making stuff.
Speaker 5:I made this paint on glass animation film oh cool it was just 45 seconds, it's like on our website, um, just a little thing, and really just fell in love with that tangible process and kind of the tone of the whole piece is about being cared for and being handmade, and so I wanted that feeling with the animation and but I I also love the kind of futuristic technology side of what the vfx brought to it and made it a little more sparkly and magical and space. So it's kind of connecting nostalgia to the future, right, um, your whole life trajectory in this film in different ways and so the creation of it. I did a one, so there's three kind of main dream sequences. Then there's what we call the interlude. In the middle I had done a mock-up of the first dream with felt cutouts more so than yarn, and had that to show to the animator.
Speaker 5:And then they made some really simple thumbnail style storyboards for other, for the other parts, sent those to me and I approved them and then it was just sort of do your thing, animator, um, and you know you can't really, at least at that point, couldn't? I wasn't there so I couldn't critique a lot or change much. It was kind of like, okay, whatever they send us, we have to work with that. Um, but some of the pieces were full in camera and then some were like the fire sequence was we had the little fire fires by themselves on a green screen and so we got to pluck those out and kind of place them in the frame as we saw fit on our end. So there was a range of like how much happened in camera in the stop motion world and then how much happened in post in like the compositing side of it and but like the flowers talking, that was all the animator matching it to the audio we already had.
Speaker 5:So that was really special and that was totally their idea and I loved it to the audio we already had. So that was really special and that was totally their idea and I loved it. Um, with the flower symbolism, with that. So it was a really collaborative process and a lot in in post for me to to go over and like make sure all of it fit and little little specs here and there and little things and how it was colored and all of that. But there wasn't a lot of direction with the animation once the storyboards were approved. Kind of just let them do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in a similar vein, I want to talk about kind of the set dressing and I saw quite a few different like art directors and folks listed in the casting because this is a period piece and folks listed in the casting because this is a period piece. So how involved were you with the curation of all these subtle little things that kind of helped place the story in 2011, 2012, like I noticed an i-home with an ipod on it, on a dresser at one point.
Speaker 1:So a lot of cool little things like that the t9 texting for sure phone really appreciate that to the actress.
Speaker 5:I was like I don't think she'd ever done that before. I was like no, you have to click the same button multiple times, so that wasn't too hard. I mean, like Tara said in the Q&A after it wasn't sort of like drowning in 2011. Of course.
Speaker 5:Just a couple of pieces here and there and then just making sure there wasn't anything that stood out that was outside the time period. So any sort of technology was important and the cars making sure I think they were a little bit newer, but not new enough that they could still fit um still had a center console that you could put a cd into.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that was my car, so it wasn't it was. It was fun matching it to that time period but it wasn't too challenging because there were just a couple of things. The CD was an important part. I was like I want a shot of that because I wanted it to be placed, but just enough to where it it fit. But it wasn't trapped in that time period and, like with the T t9 texting, there's some, some pauses. Right, that might be a little bit uncomfortable for this audience to be like. I just want the story to move along. But hopefully the right people catch on to that nostalgia of waiting for that text message to come back because it takes so long to type it, so little things like that. And that came in the edit, the pacing of the edit right and and all of that. So it was really fun to work with all those people. We had two production designers that one of them did ruby's room, natasha did ruby's room, the studio setup, and then the other one, jake, did all the on location sets.
Speaker 2:So they kind of worked together in that way uh, you had two party scenes, uh, in this film. How difficult is it to block a party, to have all those people on set to move the camera around, the lights, all the above.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the party scenes were really fun. One of my friends, elise, so kindly offered her apartment for anything we might need for the film and I chose to use it for the party scenes because Jessica Jacobs character is kind of a more well-off, fancy kind of Gothic lesbian character. She's very fun. People want to spin off of her but so so her very, very crisp and clean apartment worked well for the party scenes. We decided to just shoot both of them there.
Speaker 5:And the lighting our gaffer, chief lighting tech mike, did an excellent job placing the lights so that we had fluidity with the camera. So the lighting setup was the setup of that day, was a long time right, the lighting setup and then making sure everyone's in costume, everyone's ready to go and they know what they're doing. Uh, and then rayana rdp was on a steadicam rig and came up with that first kind of shot. You see that walks through the crowd and it was very choreographed. You had to be very particular, you know, because if you turn the camera just too far to the left you're going to start to see stuff that isn't dressed and isn't supposed to be in frame. So it was very choreographed, but the they were so excited to be there the extras. It was really fun and I really enjoyed shooting that scene as well as the scene with all the characters in her bedroom. Those scenes felt to me more like theatrical direction, like I was directing a stage piece and kind of had that energy to it, and that was really fun for me because I grew up in theater, so it was more about blocking and choreography than you know hitting that emotion in that close up. So I really liked those moments and we had a lot of fun with it.
Speaker 5:We had a really great first AD for that day too. She was only on a little bit of it, she wasn't our main first AD, but she was probably a good one to be on that set because she was very on it, very, very, very on it. Her name was Lily. Lucy was our main AD, but Lily was the AD of that party scene and I think that was it was really important to have that kind of role as well. That kept us going and made sure we got everything we needed. And then the slow motion shots turned out really great too for that. That was so fun for the actors too, because I think we had done several of the more emotional scenes right before that and I just pushed them as far as they go. I was like you are complete, 100% bliss in this scene. This is the happiest you've ever been. This is the time of your life and it was so fun to see them come alive in that way especially.
Speaker 1:And it was so fun to see them come alive in that way, especially Brendan who plays Blake. He just really I didn't expect that out of him. And then we had our after party and he also surprised us there doing karaoke and I was like, ok, so there's this whole other side of you. So he has a lot of range as an sets. Talk about the location scouting for some of the outdoor shots. Like there's some amazing stuff on park benches down kind of by a river in that one scene with Blake and Ruby. So how long did the location scouting process go?
Speaker 5:on for scripted to be in a car again lots of car scenes because, I mean, I'm sure teenagers still experience this now. But when you first get that car, it's kind of your first place, that's your own, you can have lots of experiences in there, a lot happens in the car and, and so that was originally scripted to be in a car, and then we shot in February in Boston, so the car scenes became challenging with the weather and having people outdoors for that long, so we had a limited time in this studio that we got for the car scenes. And then that river scene is the backyard of the house. So we had this main house where we shot the dining room scenes, the exterior of the house, blake's bedroom, the bathroom scene, and then the backyard of it was the river. So it just had all of those sets inside of the same house.
Speaker 5:And so we went and scouted the house for those other shots and I saw the river and it was so gorgeous with the kind of ice that was still in it and everything, and I was like how can we use this? And so we decided to have that scene be outside in that way and I think it worked really well for the feeling of that scene and allowing the natural river to take over. And even just the way and my DP might not agree, but the way it was partly cloudy and the sun kind of kept coming in and out, it just all of these natural things happened in me that seemed really beautiful and I think way better than it would have been if it was in a car, more controlled. So I'm really happy with how that one turned out and, yeah, it worked out great having a location that had all those options for us.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, as a millennial myself, I totally relate to the car thing and also to like when you're with your friends. Sometimes it's just like a park, before anyone has an apartment or like places in nature, just where you have some of these conversations and these little hangout moments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely related to that.
Speaker 5:Yeah that yeah, uh, can you tell?
Speaker 2:us what uh is next because for for uh purple magnet, which is your production company which produced this, this film, and also what's next for ugly sweater so ugly sweater is still on the festival circuit, uh, hoping to stay on it maybe until about summer of next year.
Speaker 5:So staying on it through spring, looking for distribution for streaming in the US and international places as well if they're interested. So that will happen as soon as it happens. Really, we're going to the American film market with it in November and that should be a whole experience. And right now we're planning to maintain our theatrical rights and have some sort of theatrical release with it closer to Christmas, probably next year of 25, and see how that goes. I want more people to see it for sure. I want more people to see it for sure. And then Purple Magnet has a lot of other features in development.
Speaker 5:We have, about with this one included, five features that we're working on right now. I'm producing one of them. It's called Rough Cut. You'll see a lot more about that one soon. I think we're going to launch a crowdfund and start promoting that one a good bit. So I'm just producing that one. And then I'm co-directing another one called Stop Drop and Roll, and that's a documentary that is also going to have animation in it, showing reenactment scenes and emotional scenes of this family that experienced the first Stop, drop and Roll case back in 1970 and kind of how that has impacted their family through different generations. So I'm co-directing that with a member of the family, cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, lauren, thank you so much and congratulations on Ugly Sweater. It is the perfect like soft holiday coming of age story.
Speaker 5:Thank you so much for saying that, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, we are now joined by Matt Webster and Rachel Scribner, two filmmakers from the Color of Threads or Color of Threads, excuse me, rachel, you did the costuming on on this film. Matt, you are a producer. I want to start with kind of how this project started and when you, both of you, got involved.
Speaker 6:Sure, thank you for having us.
Speaker 9:So matt came on a bit before I did um, even though the project started before either of us, so I'll let him tell the first part of the story yeah, so our writer and um kind of creator that you see at the end of the credits of josie henderson, um, was just kind of coming up with an idea for her master's class at our university Walla Walla University for her master's program. That actually Rachel and I were both in different cohorts at the time and she was just coming up with an idea of like I have this idea about like three guys in Boston and her mom came and was like no one's going to watch that. But why don't you do something that's focused around here? Because I've never seen a film done about this area before, which is between Walla Walla, washington, and Pendleton, oregon, which is right on the Washington-Oregon border, as we like to say Idaho-Washington-Oregon, touch kind of down in that section of the state. So it was kind of a in that section of the state.
Speaker 9:So it was kind of a thought process of that for her and it was like what about women coming back? Because you know, pendleton Oregon has this history of like late 1890s, early 1900s, of almost being like a Vegas before Vegas, where there was just all this stuff going on. It was a trade hub and everything, and the Pendleton woolen mills were starting at that time too. So why don't you do about women, about a few women who maybe compete for a job there? So that's where she went. That was about, I think about 2017, 2018, she got that idea, started writing it and then kind of shelved it. When the pandemic happened and I came in to the university beginning of 2022 as the producer in residence there and this was sitting on my desk. I'm like, can we make this? And I was like, well, there's a few producer red flags in here.
Speaker 9:I'm like you want children fire at night with horses. I'm like hold on real quick. So but um, through redrafting and things like that, it got to what we have here at the gig harbor film festival, which is 24 minute proof of concept for it.
Speaker 2:So that's fantastic, uh. For the costuming, you worked closely with the historical experts on set. Can you talk about that process and how you brought these costumes to life?
Speaker 6:Absolutely so. Just like Matt said, it was such an ambitious project, which is part of what made it so exciting for students to be part of something that had so much history and so many professional crew members they could work with and so many professional crew members they could work with and getting to be part of that and do something with so much historical accuracy and so much connection to this valley that we all love having been there as students. So the scriptwriter, josie, had done quite a bit of research and then, when I came on to do the costumes, we did a lot more. We talked to different people and did a lot of reading and looked at old photographs.
Speaker 6:The women in the film come from all different backgrounds. So there is a black woman from Chicago, there is a native woman who lives right there in the valley, there's a woman from the traveling community. All these different backgrounds that were present in that area, in the town or nearby, but that we have to say okay at that time. What did people with this kind of job and this kind of background in this place, where it's very specific and so you know, like when I found an old photograph of a shopkeeper who was a Chinese man and we have a Chinese character like, okay, now we have, and that was in Pendleton, now we have our hallmark for this one. It's the right year and just collecting these, these sort of archives of images, speaking to people, showing it then to experts and to elders and saying this is what we're thinking, how does this work? It became a community project and that was, I think, the big joy of it for us.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. That's amazing to really bring in the whole community around a film like this, because it is a very powerful film and very powerful message and deals with powerful themes. It also has an amazing train sequence in it. Matt, you told a great story at the Q&A about how you were able to find that train, how it almost was not found. Can you share that with us on the pod?
Speaker 9:Oh yeah, definitely so. At the beginning of the film there's a traveling scene where one of our main characters comes into Pendleton after traveling, arriving In the early drafts of going to be pretty slim.
Speaker 9:And one that's working too, and one that's working, one that's not in a museum and if we find one somewhere, we're probably going to have to put a lot of our budget in the CGI and we really need to put it into some other areas as well lot of our budget in the CGI and we really need to put it into some other areas as well. So it was kind of like well, let's start talking with our DP about doing some shots that were around this historical depot and like we'll bring in smoke and stuff and make it look like a train car is there. So as we start talking to the historical depot in Dayton Washington, they're like don't you want a train car out here? The tracks are operational. And we're like we would love a train car. Um, but we're.
Speaker 9:What we're finding is like from the 60s, the 70s, the 80s. And they're like well, what do you need? I'm like, can you? We need something from like the early 1900s. And the director of the depot was like well, 1910 work. And I'm like tell me more, please. Um with that. We'm like, tell me more, please With that. We were like well, let me guess this is like up in Olympia, up in Seattle or it's down in California somewhere, and we're going to have to then throw our CGI budget that we're thinking into moving the strain car or it's not even moving.
Speaker 9:And she was just like no, it's sitting in Walla Walla in our town.
Speaker 2:Right behind the school. No, it was literally like four miles down the road from the school. That's amazing.
Speaker 9:And it's sitting in the switchyard and the guy who owns it he's from Walla Walla and it's this Pullman train car from the early 1900s that we found out was actually built by Abraham Lincoln's son for the Pullman train company, actually built by abraham lincoln's son for the public train company, and it's the oldest operational train car, from what we were told from the owner in the united states today that still operates that's amazing. Yeah, it's so amazing and that's the train car you see in our film, so wow what?
Speaker 2:what production value that? That that adds right, like I mean, and how lucky. It's so funny how things come together like that on film sometimes. Um, what is next for color of threads? Uh, and also what's next for both of you individually?
Speaker 9:sure. So with color threads. Um, like we said before, this is just like a taste of color threads. There's way more. Josie has outlined at least three seasons of three season arc for all this. But just in the 24 minutes you've seen here at the festival and that we have out right now, it's just a taste of what can be broader. So we're having conversations, those who are interested in making it a series that's Josie's vision for it is to be a series. But we've also had conversations with distributors of what if it was a series. But we've also had conversations with distributors of what if it was a feature, maybe around the two-hour mark, about 120 pages. So that's the discussions we're having.
Speaker 9:I'm heading off actually to Nashville tomorrow and we'll be in a few meetings with some distributors in Nashville next week to see where we can take it futuristically and to get it out to more people as well and make the overall vision of the film. And I'm still at the university bringing in projects. So when students can come to our program and they can build a portfolio, my job is to bring in those projects like color threads, so that students can work on professional projects. When they leave they can go out. Here's my portfolio. I've worked on sets so cool.
Speaker 6:And when I'm not making costumes, I work with a student film festival, sunscreen film festival, and we get to partner with students and schools on projects like color of threads. So we're looking forward to working with a few more schools this next year and hopefully being with well well when they're ready for their next big show.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much, both of you, for stopping by during this busy, busy weekend, and thank you so much for bringing Color of Threads to Gig Harbor. It was such a wonderful movie to watch.
Speaker 9:Yeah, thank you, max. Thank you for having us, thank you.
Speaker 2:Cheers.
Speaker 1:Okay, that does it for our filmmaker interviews from this year's Gig Harbor Film Festival. One more huge thank you to the artists who took time out of their busy schedules to chat with us, and also a shout out to the countless other filmmakers and new friends who we met over the weekend. We would have loved to have you all on the pod as well, but between the amazing parties, the Q and a sessions and the amazing screenings, there's only so much time left over for a recording. A final thank you to the gig Harbor film festival board and their incredibly hardworking director, pam Holt.
Speaker 1:I know I speak for Max when I say just how cool it is that our hometown of Gig Harbor has such an impressive and well-run festival. We truly look forward to it each year and are honored to be a part of the fun. As for what's next on ETI, erica Kraus will be joining me a little later this week to chat about Francis Ford Coppola's new film, megapolis, and then we will talk about our favorite films from the legendary director's career. In the meantime, be sure to follow ETI on Instagram and myself, max and Erica, on Letterboxd, so that you can track what we are watching between episodes, and I will talk to you next time on Excuse the Intermission, where movies still matter.
