Excuse the Intermission
Alex and Max take you on a journey through film with this discussion podcast about movies.
Excuse the Intermission
The Art of Casting: Top Five Best Cast Roles in Film
Ever wondered how casting decisions shape the very essence of a film? In our latest episode, Join Alex, Erica and improviser and theater teacher Salvatore Frattallone joins us for a witty and insightful chat about the art of casting in movies. We reminisce about the nostalgia of Blockbuster nights and childhood favorites like "Land Before Time," revealing how Salvatore's quirky fascination with film subgenres. Prepare for a whirlwind of laughter and thought-provoking perspectives as we question what makes casting choices truly iconic, or at times, detrimental to the cinematic experience.
From Meryl Streep's unforgettable performance in "The Devil Wears Prada" to the chilling portrayal of Patrick Bateman by Christian Bale, we celebrate the actors who leave an indelible mark on pop culture. We even look ahead to the new Oscar category for casting directors, pondering which films could earn such an accolade. This episode is packed with engaging stories about Oscar parties, memorable movie performances, and the lasting impact of perfect casting. Whether you're a film buff or just love a good story, you won't want to miss this lively exploration of the magic behind movie casting.
How's it? I'm Alex McCauley and this is Excuse the Intermission a discussion show surrounding movies and, on this episode, casting. Perfect casting can take a film and a character from simply existing as a part of a whole to becoming its own piece of iconography. Conversely, the wrong casting can tank a film's overall effectiveness Ahead. On today's episode, erica and I will discuss our favorite casting choices ever, with the help from a long overdue special guest who we'll introduce on the other side of this quick break. All right, erica, good to have you back in studio. How have you been?
Speaker 2:I've been good Just hanging out. Not really a lot going on. Firing up the spooky season movies oh, I'm in full blown spooky mode, yeah what's?
Speaker 1:what's this netflix movie? I keep seeing people log on letterboxd right now. What's inside?
Speaker 2:it's what's inside, am I not?
Speaker 3:supposed to talk before the intro, did I just? Break everything you can do whatever you want.
Speaker 1:You're just teasing people. Everyone's like, oh, do I know that voice. Who is this person? Sorry, sorry.
Speaker 2:No, it's so good. Yeah, it's like, if you like, bodies, bodies, bodies.
Speaker 1:Oh, which we do.
Speaker 2:Very much like Netflix Bodies, bodies.
Speaker 1:Bodies, so good.
Speaker 2:I also saw like a really good comparison. People were saying like bodies, bodies, bodies meets um, what's that, what's that? One movie you can clue, oh yeah, clue, or um, ready or not?
Speaker 3:kind of okay. I don't know if you've seen that, um, but it's.
Speaker 2:It's fun, it's a really good. I'm not I don't really reach for netflix movies that often, but I just watched it because I was seeing all this hype and dude.
Speaker 1:Highly recommend it's a good time, might be might be getting fired up tonight, then you would like. Okay, I could talk about it all day long all right, and then we're delighted to be joined by this mystery man over here um in studio, a good friend of the pod. He's an accomplished and probably in provisional and provisional you sound like the host of city war.
Speaker 1:I sure do he's a comedian who is one part of the world famous improv troop boy smooches, which has toured across this country, and holds residency right here in tacoma, washington, at the historic edison square. He's also a theater teacher at the esteemed annie wright, where he is just beginning the next chapter of his dramatic career. It is our pleasure to welcome Salvatore Fratelloni to the pod. Sal, how are you doing today? Doing amazing. Thank you so much. It's about time we got you on here.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it, man, and it's really cool having you here for this casting episode, because this was really your idea a couple of months ago when you were asking Max and myself, have you guys done this? Have you guys done that? And when you said casting, it's like the light bulb turned on. This keeps happening. We're 200 and something episodes into the pod and it's like how have we not done this yet? So before we kind of get to why you wanted to do this episode and why we are releasing it it right now, kind of just talk to us about your relationship with movies. What kind of movie goer are you? Do you find yourself in the theater? Sounds like you stream some stuff every now and then. Do you have a favorite genre?
Speaker 3:talk to us, yeah so, um, I I love movies. I we were just talking about Blockbuster before and Hollywood Video before we got started but we would go to Blockbuster, me and my dad and my sister, and we would pick out a Mary-Kate and Ashley movie for my sister and then I would pick out like a superhero movie or an action movie or a you know Land Before Time.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, I fucked hard with Land Before Time, I love.
Speaker 3:Land Before Time movies. It's a deep series too.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes and no and so yeah. So I've loved movies for a while and probably my favorite genre is me and my fiancee we watch a lot. You know, if you want to talk about, I love good party questions about movies, about music. So one of my favorites always is, you know, uh, mount rushmore favorite movies, mount rushmore, hip-hop artists or groups, blah, blah, blah. And then you know we were talking about the best casting decision the other day. That inspired this episode. I got asked this question the other day that inspired this episode. I got asked this question the other day by a friend who said what is a sub genre of movie that you will watch no matter what, no matter how bad the reviews are? What people are saying about a movie like what's your sub genre that you're going to watch no matter what? And I was like that's another good, that's another party question.
Speaker 1:That's another episode. It's so considerate of you to give these people an opportunity, these hypothetical people, these whatever, in a party for options to do the mountain rush more. Because I feel like when people get asked, we, I just had to do some stupid mixer icebreaker things at a work deal or whatever and people are asking what's your favorite movie? I actually pulled out letterbox to this one group because I was like, well, I'm gonna give you my top four because this is how they do it. Okay, yes, that's so funny. You know what Right now because it is spooky season subgenre I'm always going to fuck with is like the Shudder originals. I'll watch any Shudder original that has like a 4.9 on IMDb. Give it to me.
Speaker 3:We just yeah, well, you know, I got asked this question the other day in front of a bunch of you know, our improv students, and I told the honest truth for me and my fiance, the subgenre we always watch is no matter what is movies about. Like a girl trapped in a basement, like no matter what the reviews are, what the circumstances are. If there's a movie about somebody trapped in a basement, doesn't matter if it's her father, if it's her neighbor, we'll watch them all How'd she get there.
Speaker 1:What's going on?
Speaker 3:Sometimes the ending is not a good ending and usually those are the true story ones. But seriously, since we started dating, still to this day, we always watch those movies Like no matter what. We've almost seen them all, and the one that I haven't seen is the one that's like the best one, which is Room.
Speaker 2:And that's the one.
Speaker 3:I still haven't seen People are like With Brie Larson. Yeah, oh yeah, that's a good one, people are like that's the best one out of all of those and I'm like I'll watch it, so I guess I'm breaking my rule.
Speaker 1:There's a level of prestige to the room, though that I think might kind of disqualify it from fitting in your little niche subgenre, but at the same time, room is really just like an incredibly well done and long episode of Criminal Minds or something like that. Csi. Yeah, that's a great one.
Speaker 3:Besides that, I'm a huge comic book fan, I'm a huge superhero fan and yeah, and then I you know I'm Italian. I like mob movies. I love mob movies, I love good fellows and stuff like that, so that's why I'm a huge.
Speaker 1:I think that's why I'm a huge. I think that's why I'm a huge batman fan is because it's the perfect marriage between the two. I love mafia crime stuff and I love batman. I gotta start watching the penguin. Either of you guys watching penguin, I'm saving it, yeah, oh, until you can like binge it all well, right now we're we're re-watch my my girl's watching the sopranos for the first time through.
Speaker 3:I'm watching it like fully for the second time through. So I want to finish that with her, because we get off track so easily. And then I'm gonna watch penguin, but uh, I love the batman.
Speaker 1:She hated it, so yeah uh, erica, before we start talking about this casting episode idea, do you have a? Do you have a response to the subgenre question? I'm'm very curious to know. Well, I'm trying to think you were pumping your fist to Mary-Kate and Ashley like Disney Channel originals.
Speaker 3:Watch them all, no matter how bad the reviews are, how good they are, you're going to watch it, no matter what.
Speaker 2:Well, I hate to just automatically go to horror, but I'm always going to reach for a Texas backwoods horror movie. That'll always do it for me, no matter what, because I just think it like creeps me out. But I don't know, I feel like I'm also like such a huge comedy fan and there's some like pretty niche, oh, like a mockumentary. That's always gonna be something that really like best in show. Um, what's the other one that came out with? Um god, it was forever ago.
Speaker 1:It's like a beat about a beauty, beauty pageant I just got the opportunity to recommend drop dead gorgeous to some people because they were talking about mockumentaries and I'm like listen so good it's from 1999, so it gets overlooked because that's such a strong movie year. It gets overlooked because it's not one of these Christopher Guest type films. But my goodness, sal, you would cry laughing. I love it. It's so funny, it sounds good and especially too, being from Minnesota, having ties to Minnesota, it's a. Minnesota movie. It's in the northern Midwest, I can't tell.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure there is Minnesota. I think it is Minnesota Because they even say like Minnesota.
Speaker 1:They do a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a really good one, but I think, yeah, I love a mockumentary, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:I mean that's a good question have you seen, I'm Still here speaking of Joaquin Phoenix.
Speaker 1:No, I have not, that's the Bob Dylan. No, multiple no, well, no, I'm still here as a people call it.
Speaker 3:I guess you could technically put into a mockumentary.
Speaker 1:Oh, the one he did with Casey Affleck, yeah.
Speaker 3:So remember when Joaquin Phoenix grew out his beard and put the gum under Dave Letterman's desk and go?
Speaker 3:with acting so like people say it's a mockumentary, that movie, but in my opinion it's like a. It's like a big method acting piece, basically, basically where he plays a version of himself. And if you look at it that way and watch that movie, I think it's really good. I love that movie. It's really interesting because, like, some people are in on it and are like doing actually a great job being in on it and some people aren't and kind of blurs that line, but I'm Still here is great, I love I'm Still here. He shits on a bed.
Speaker 2:They show him pooping on a bed. It's crazy. Yeah, that's method acting for you.
Speaker 1:Yes. So this is great because we've already brought up Penguin kind of the Joker extended universe here. You just heard Joaquin Phoenix's name get dropped.
Speaker 1:Joker Folly Ado was released two weeks ago in theater and was really the catalyst for wanting to release this episode right now in the middle of October, because this was one of the talking points that got Sal, myself and Max kind of going was wow, you know, the Joker character has really been done to that level of iconography that we're talking about three different times Jack Nicholson did it once, heath ledger did it once and now joaquin phoenix has done it twice, to varying degrees of success. However, the first time oscar, when heath ledger did it back in 2008, oscar, jack nicholson iconic once again. And so that was really one of the starting points to this conversation was never mind the movie's overall effectiveness, never mind if it did take home any awards, but what are the five best? Mount Rushmore, however, you want to have the conversation what are the best casting decisions of all time? So we'll get to that in a minute.
Speaker 1:However, max, at the end of an episode, kind of aired his quick thoughts on joker 2 the other day. Erica, I know you saw it and you have some opinions, so maybe talk a little bit in contrast to did they massacre our boy? What happened to joaquin phoenix? Was it an intentional, like just paycheck job? What? What happened here?
Speaker 2:because I know you did not care for this film no, I don't know what happened, honestly, and I haven't really taken the time to like read too much into it because I did not enjoy it, and that's just. I'm really bummed because I loved the first one. It was so good and I just thought that his performance in the first one was just unbelievable. It blew me away. I really enjoyed it. I had a good time. I'm a huge batman fan as well and I love like when you know, especially with the christopher nolan batmans, how they make it feel like it's like really happening. It feels like a very realistic world, and so I really appreciated that about joker is that we really kind of step into. You almost feel like you're siding with him at this point. But then so jumping to this, the new one that was just released. It's obviously bombing and getting horrible reviews and you know it's like be prepared.
Speaker 2:It's a musical, I mean, which, when people were telling me that and I was reading that yeah and I'm like well, maybe, like, surely, it's not like a full-blown musical, maybe they sing a mint, like I don't even know what. I didn't know what to expect.
Speaker 1:I had a very open mind and well, and I think, with the casting of lady gaga as this harley quinn character, that gives you reason for optimism as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I was very on board with that casting decision.
Speaker 2:I I think she's proven that she can be a really great dynamic actor. Um, especially, like you know, a star is born, was amazing. And then, um, you know she's had that role, um, in american horror story. That was really successful. I like her. I think she was a great, great decision for Harley Quinn, but we just don't. It was I don't even know, like, I don't know what happened. I don't understand how we could go from like the first one and then this one just felt like, is this a joke? I mean, it's like seriously what. I want to ask questions and be like what were you thinking really? Because he won an oscar for the first one and then this new one, you're just like even his performance felt really dulled down, like it.
Speaker 3:I don't know was it a jukebox, musical or like? Are they singing like songs that are already been made?
Speaker 2:no, they're literally every song's original. Oh wait no, that's not true. I think they're. It's kind of a mix, because there's a couple songs that are already been made. No, they're literally every song's original. Oh wait, no, that's not true. I think they're. It's kind of a mix, because there's a couple songs that they sing that are like actual songs, and then there's this one part where he's singing in the. It's the weirdest thing and I'm like why are we singing right now? What's happening? Yeah, it was the I don't know I I was.
Speaker 1:It was a chore to sit through and watch that it's going to be really interesting to see what it does to the reputation for the walking phoenix joker character, because with the success that you mentioned of the first one, we all know he wins the oscar. It's an incredible performance. I love the portrayal of gotham too. Like it's, it is still a good movie set in the batman universe as well, even though it is just a character study of Joker, but it's just so weird. A DC Elseworlds project Is that what you all call it.
Speaker 3:That's what James Gunn calls it now. This is a DC Elseworlds project now, which I kind of like. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. I just like that. You know that that's great.
Speaker 3:That's technically what it is. I love that that's technically what it is.
Speaker 1:I love that. And so it's just so interesting because what the first Joker was able to accomplish was this bucking of the trend where it kind of completed the lineage, the feeder pattern, if you will, from Jack Nicholson's Joker and people said he can't do it any better than he did it. And then Heath Ledger proves those naysayers wrong. And then Joaquin Phoenix and to a certain degree in joker, you know, I think the heath ledger performance is still iconic and maybe top of top of the mountain is sort of apex, apex mountain for jokers, but still he, you know joaquin phoenix and joker is still right there, because this arthur fleck character we get to know him so personally in a way that we didn't in the dark knight and now with this sequel I just wonder if that's going to feel a little tainted, sort of tarnished here like in and maybe at the by the end of this year, in five years and ten years it'll just be really interesting, yeah it's just too bad, because I mean he really does transform.
Speaker 1:I mean like it's he he is he still good as j Joker in this?
Speaker 2:honestly, I didn't think so just because well like the only thing that I I would even say positive about this is that visually it's gorgeous. Because the first one is also just stunning, in my opinion, like the cinematography is great. I just love the cut, like just the darkness around it. And this, the second one, definitely had like the visuals down, but, um, and you know, even, like I will say, lady gaga had some like redeeming moments like you could have, you, you could just see that there was like this potential there for this really great story to, and I'm like you know the the trailer just sold me it's a great trailer.
Speaker 1:I'm so bummed to hear that the movie is not good. It's a good trailer.
Speaker 2:I even saw when me and Max went and saw a movie and I saw a trailer for Joker again and I was just like getting all hyped in my seat. And he looked at me and he's like don't get too excited, Wow. And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, just I, I wouldn't get too hyped about it and I'm just so sad that it really let me down. That's for sure. That sucks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess we're waiting for Streamer on this one, sal.
Speaker 3:Streamer. Yeah, I think I am going to as well. That sucks, because I was really excited that it was a musical. I think hearing that it's half jukebox, half original songs makes me realize that todd phillips wasn't comfortable making choices in this movie. You got to stick to one thing go full jukebox or go full original songs. And I heard that the songs weren't pushing the story forward. That's me. In musicals, the songs have to push the story forward. Even if it's just by a little bit, it's gotta push the story forward, or really, you know, explain a moment that's happening, why this is a big deal. If you're singing about something, it has to be important right so that's tough, that's yeah.
Speaker 3:Make choices, make this what I tell my kids every day make choices, make, just make any choice.
Speaker 1:We can adjust and commit to them, like what you're saying for Todd commit to them Absolutely All right, so.
Speaker 1:So let's let's talk about, about casting good casting here now, because this has been, I think, an episode topic that we have continued to sort of wrap our heads around and figure out what exactly are we trying to accomplish by by making these lists, and so I think the Joker conversation there helps folks maybe a little bit try to understand what what we're talking about. In some of these conversations, though, that we've been having off mic, we had a very spirited one with a whole lot of people outside of church cantina, like at the end of summer, where you were pulling everybody. You were getting some great responses from people. It's the best, though, erica. It is really fun when you get people going. Erica and I have been going back and forth over text. We talked about it at the end of an episode a little while ago, so are there any more clarifying questions before we kind of get to, maybe, our rough definition of what we're trying to do here? I don't think so, I don't think so, you don't think so, I don't think so, you don't think so. Okay, so I have a few, a few more examples of just people who I think are sort of patron saints of of this category, of this, this made up experiment that we're trying to do here.
Speaker 1:I think johnny depp now I don't want to step on any toes here. I left him off my list specifically because I think that there are a few johnny depp characters out there that are like patron saints of what we're talking about here, where, after seeing especially the first three Pirates of the Caribbean movies, I don't think there's any other actor that you can sit there and say would have been better cast to play Captain Jack Sparrow. Now there's other similar actors who, like, are about the same age, who we've seen really go for it and transcend into different characters like could you say maybe, yeah, well, if you put some mascara on keanu reeves and give him some dreads and a couple of, you know, piercings, could keanu reeves have done it? I still don't think so. Could Could Gary Oldman? You know all these other people? I still don't think so.
Speaker 1:I think that Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow is another like A plus example of what we're talking about here. And the reason why I say Johnny Depp is sort of like the goat of this is because I think he's done it a few other times in his career too. Edward Scissorhands to me is synonymous with Johnny Depp. I don't think you could have another actor play that role, and then even to a lesser degree. And it's funny, we're talking about musicals and this marriage kind of between he and Tim Burton, which we touched on a few episodes ago as well, I don't think he got.
Speaker 1:You can't do another Sweeney Todd without, without Johnny Depp. I don't think there's a few other. You know the him as the Mad Hatter and Alice in Wonderland. We talked about how he kind of takes that movie over. But again, then there's the iconography where, like for so many people, I think the Mad Hatter is just Johnny Depp and so that's. I think another good way to start thinking about this category is do you identify the character? Is almost the actor's name over the character's name, the actor's name over the character's name? Yeah, no, what else have we talked about? What, what, uh, what are some other good like talking points, before we kick off our list here because, like, who's?
Speaker 1:exempt from being on a list because they're already their own thing if you want to talk about, if you want to look at it in that sense, but there's, there's been some other ones. I think that, like you have to look at re repeat characters, characters that have been done multiple times, because, even talking about johnny depp, he, he played wonka, but no if you can make it, if you can make a case for it and I think that there's there's a certain willie wonka out there that has proven that this was the best casting possible, because it's been tried a few other times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you've seen. Nope, it doesn't hold up.
Speaker 3:Timothy Chanterelle baby, let's go.
Speaker 1:That's your Wonka, sexy Wonka, timothy.
Speaker 3:Shabalabadingdong, is my Wonka, really no.
Speaker 2:I hate that little bastard, I hate him.
Speaker 3:I really do. I got really scared for a second. I hate him. I hate him so much.
Speaker 1:Do you think that there's certain characters that have proven, whereas, like I think because I think I think the Joker character specifically is the asterisk it is the outlier in this conversation where there's been different characters that have been portrayed by different actors time in and time out, and you're like no, that's, that's the way to do it. Or you just kind of have your personal taste where, like, I'm not going to sit here and say that I think that nobody can play James Bond because of the way that Daniel Craig played it, because Sean Connery, there's so many people that are like, no, you know, james Bond, it, my James Bond is Sean Connery. There's some people who are like my james bond is roger moore and yeah, and then you have your daniel craig heads out there. So there's those certain characters that have that high level of of iconography but that don't really fit what we're talking about here, because, because different actors have proven that, like I can do this to to a plus caliber yeah, I don't have any.
Speaker 3:I mean spoilers. I don't have any batmans on my list because that means another great one because you can make a great case for all of them and it's.
Speaker 3:You know, even robert pattinson is probably like my newest favorite. But and then you even get into like you know what voice acting performance was so good that it might even be better than a live action one. I'm kind of one of those kevin conroy fanboys or I'll even throw his name out there when we're talking about live actions Like he might even be better than all the live actions.
Speaker 1:I never even thought to include voice actors on my list.
Speaker 2:I didn't either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I didn't either, but like Robin Williams as the genie, Shout out Robin Williams as the genie, because we've seen will smith try to do that, and it just doesn't work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so true, I didn't even think about that great call sal I just my list is kind of kind of I.
Speaker 2:There's these people who just gave such a killer performance that I couldn't imagine anyone else doing it. But is that because we've only seen that person do it, that like they just killed it the first time. I had to like think about that when I was creating this. But I'm comfortable with my decisions where I'm like, ok, these people I just think really took on that character so well. And then I just don't think I've tried to place like other people in that role and I don't think anyone else might fit. I kind of use a similar strategy. How did you go about?
Speaker 1:making your list. I've tried to place other people in that role and I don't think anyone else might fit. I kind of use a similar strategy.
Speaker 3:How did you go about making your list? I tried to do a mix of just performances that I loved so much that I can't imagine it any other way, and then I also put in there franchise savers as as well. You know, my list is a little bit about money in America. Sorry to say sorry, there's an American on this podcast. I'm joking, no, but um, I'm uh, my, uh, so stupid. Sorry, my list is gonna come down to America. No, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:I was just thinking about people that I am, characters that I imagined in my mind, and then my imagination and then what I saw on screen is like merged and there's no other way I can get it out of my head. I like asking people questions like this too, of like you know, talking about like imagining characters in her head. I, you know, I think I read half of the first harry potter, or so maybe the first harry potter's read to me before I saw the first movie. So I like asking people that are like a little older than me, like what did you, who did you imagine? What did you imagine snape looked like before the movie came out, and like I love hearing what people say like I thought he was wearing like a lab coat and bubble. I don't like what's like. That's crazy. I can't imagine snape any other way than all black, alan rickman.
Speaker 1:Alan rickman yeah, interesting. That's another great way to look at it too, when a character goes from page to screen.
Speaker 3:My list is a mix of that, and then money and then endorsements. Who got the most endorsements is who sold the most. Action figures is really what my list got. No, I'm joking, but yeah. No, it's a mix of a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I can't wait to hear these. Let's not delay any longer, Erica. Why don't you?
Speaker 2:hit us with your number five. Well, I'll just go ahead and say Alan Rickman as Severus Snape. Let's go, yeah, so I'll just. I thought that's a pretty appropriate one to begin with, because I am a huge Harry Potter nerd. It's been a long time since I've read the books, because I read them when I was so young. But I really can't imagine I was. I'm like I feel like I have to touch on Harry Potter, right, because there's some obviously iconic characters. But could we have casted Harry Potter himself differently? Probably we could.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 2:Daniel, we love you, but you know you're, there's other kids out there who maybe could have done it better. I don't know, um, that's really mean to say. I feel bad saying that. But alan rickman as severus nape, like I just cannot imagine anybody else playing him and it between the voice and just even it's it's his voice. Really that kind of takes it on for me, because I've seen him in other movies and you're like he's still got that like pretty deep you know, just moody voice to him and he's just.
Speaker 2:He was like a moody guy. So Severus, being so emotionally complex as he is, um, I think that he was just the Snape. I mean, I don't really think of anyone else as him.
Speaker 3:Did you read the first Harry Potter before you saw the movie?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Do you?
Speaker 3:remember what you imagined Snape looked like in your head.
Speaker 2:Probably not. I mean probably someone who was like super gothy and like dark.
Speaker 1:You know that's cool.
Speaker 2:Like. I don't know.
Speaker 3:God, I was so cool.
Speaker 2:I can't remember like exactly when I was maybe I want to say I was like eight or nine when I first read the, like the first cause I got like a box set of them. I was so young but, um, it's hard to imagine that but yeah, then the movie started coming out and then obviously we had had the later books. But yeah, I don't know. I just think at this point in time he is Severus, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's a great call. I think the film has a lot of interchangeable actors for certain characters. He's one that you wouldn't touch, though. Like if you were recasting the movie today, you'd almost have to be like what are we going to do with Snape because alan rickman's gone? You know like exactly it's tough.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great call with the number five I have a quick side story about um harry potter. I'll keep it short. We uh, when we went to the, I was a senior or I was in high school when the last movie came out. You know how you dress up for the premieres, so a lot of people dress up as you know. It's there's only like one or two voldemorts the premiere because of the makeup and stuff. There's a million bellatrix's and blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Me and like four of my other buddies, we got cardboard boxes and we dressed up as hogwarts. We made hogwarts and we like wore a hog, like we were all connected, like we just took a picture of like some of the yeah, it was sick and then like people like would be in line for the movie and getting snacks and they would come up to us and they would stare at us and be like what the fuck? Oh, you're hogwarts and I'm like, honestly, the most important character in the whole movie.
Speaker 1:None of you would be here without us.
Speaker 3:You would be here without us and you know people are. What'd you do with the costume after? We just like folded it up after and shoved it under the seat. Isn't it funny that that's kind of just a trash can at movie theaters and baseball games is just putting it under the seat, as that's like a trash can listen I think about this all the time.
Speaker 1:These are these outside of my own dwelling and work? I don't think I spend any more time than I do at either a sports stadium or a movie theater, and I struggle with this all the time and I don't know why. I distinguish in my head what I feel like is appropriate to throw under my seat and what's not.
Speaker 3:I hate to throw stuff away down there. We're not throwing it away? We're certainly not.
Speaker 1:And I hate the justification. There's always this justification where well, it's someone's job to clean it up. That's bad. I'm like I could throw this on the fucking side of the road and guess what. Sooner or later, it's someone's job to clean it up, but that's a terrible thing to do. Guess what? Sooner or later, it's someone's job to clean it up.
Speaker 1:But that's a terrible thing to do. Why does it make us? Why do we feel like it's any better in a stadium or in a movie theater? Sorry for the side story, that's wild. I love that. All right, what's your number five?
Speaker 3:Me? Okay, I have Ewan McGregor. Did I say it right, ewan? Yes, be one. Kenobi, fascinating, okay.
Speaker 3:So think about this One if you want to get into somebody playing a younger version of a very iconic character. He crushes it. He crushes it especially in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, episode 2 and 3. You kind of see a little bit in Episode 1. But he crushes it at that, at sort of mimicking but not doing an impression, which is a hard thing to do as an actor mimic somebody's performance but don't do an impression, right, um, crushes it at that and honestly, I think he's the through line that saved, like the.
Speaker 3:The prequels say whatever you want about them, I think ewan mcgregor is the, is him as obi-wan is the through line that made the prequels watchable, like, at least watchable like this is so bad I'm gonna shut it off. Obviously there's bad stuff with those prequels and I think that's a testament to how good he is, because the prequels, for the most part, are really bad and he's just so good at like committing, tripling down on this character and this performance and growing throughout the movies. You know, yeah, I just I loved, I loved his performances, obi-wan Kenobi. I think it's perfect casting, honestly no-transcript.
Speaker 1:Or really ham it up also Exactly. And just be like a character of himself? Yes, but he does do it with a lot of earnesty. He's great.
Speaker 3:He's great. I mean, say what you want, obi-wan's side of the like final monologue or dialogue to Anakin after their fight, it's amazing, like he's really good, I loved him. I loved him. So that's that stuck out to me as like uh, honestly, I feel like a lot of people might forget about that just because of the prequels. He's really good.
Speaker 3:The Obi-Wan show should have been a movie. I want to watch the like movie cut of it that that guy made who did the same thing with uh, or he did it with obi-wan. He just finished ahsoka too, but and I heard it's way better than the obi-wan show. Some guy just like cut it into an hour before you win obi-wan in the show, yeah, and it's like in between episode three and four, basically so, and he fights anakin again or darth vader again, and there are some moments are pretty good, but overall it wasn't great. But, um, I think that was because it originally was slated to be a movie and then they tried to force it into a show, which it should have just been a like a just straight up disney movie, um, disney plus movie. Or or like half and half release movie, like in theater and Disney plus. But I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm so removed from the star Wars films that I don't really I love the call because I don't really have a certain tie to any of those characters. You know, maybe someone would say Carrie Fisher is, princess Leia is like iconic and you can't touch it. I'd probably agree with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, but but I love it because sal said he was coming for the film bros and immediately we're talking, we're attacking, star wars a new hope.
Speaker 2:Oh, my list is gonna make people hate this podcast like it's over.
Speaker 3:I want you to know that it's over. You made a bad choice. I can't wait, and that's just number five.
Speaker 1:I can't wait um all right's, just number five.
Speaker 3:I can't wait.
Speaker 1:All right, well, my number five. I'm cheating, as I always do, with my number five pick here, and so I have the same actor twice for two different roles. I was splitting hairs between these two and I just realized that I kind of can't Washington as Malcolm X in Malcolm X. That casting right there in Spike Lee's epic mockument not mockumentary but docudrama of Malcolm X's life. I feel like when you look at photos of Malcolm X during the civil rights movement and Denzel Washington from the film, it's like almost looking in a mirror. It's still. You still know you're looking at Denzel Washington, but he just transcends into that role and the odyssey that he goes through, from being the small time criminal going into jail to having ever going to need to make a malcolm x movie. That is, that is the docudrama style, you know, because there's now, there'll be other people, I think. I know that there was that film a couple of years ago one night in miami and there was another actor, I think leslie odom jr portrayed him. No one talks about that performance right like this is the gold standard, I think, for malcolm max on screen. And then my other denzel washington performance is him in training day as alonzo harris, another one that I was thinking about. You know he wins the oscar for it, but I don't my list isn't too polluted with awards on here because I didn't want that to be like a qualifier for me or anything.
Speaker 1:So I just kind of started thinking about like all the different ways in which this role could have been cast and all the other extremely accomplished black actors at the time who could have played this role and what it would have done for the movie. Like if you put Wesley Snipes in that role, it becomes a completely different movie and almost this you know satire of, like the crooked cop who who's taking a rookie under his wing. Yeah, you know, you, I think about ice t, I think about all these other actors who kind of played in these similar role, who played in similar movies in the late 80s, the 90s, and then training day comes out right at the beginning of the 2000s there, and so Samuel Jackson, lawrence Fishburne, you know all these other guys, and I'm just like nobody could have done it the way that Denzel did it, because we had this audiences had this different relationship with him than we had to. All those other actors like Denzel was such a good guy always in movies. And so then him you know turning and playing the bad guy in this movie. It's so memorable and I don't think any other actor could have pulled it off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I started thinking about okay, well, what if the alonzo harris character wasn't even black? What if the race roles were reversed and it was this white veteran cop and he's taking on a black younger officer? If it was two black guys or two white guys, and and what that would have done to the story? And you just couldn't tell the story the same way, because you have to. Denzel is so believable in the role as this, this awful, evil, crooked cop who is greasing those above him in the department. He's still able to go into the bad neighborhoods and and he's doing the same thing he's got his thumb, he's holding down the gangs and he's he's trying to manipulate them. But then he's also this family man back at home and he's got his young son. And the scene where he takes jake, the, the um, I can't believe I'm blanking on on my guy's name right now um, ethan hawke.
Speaker 1:He takes the ethan hawke character into his home and you see what he's like with his wife, with eva mendez and his son, and it's just so touching and you're like that's the denzel we know. And then the very next scene, he's taking them to the mexican gang house and it's just crazy again. And so I I think that denzel's got to get a shout out here, and I just couldn't figure out which movie to to do it for. So I'm splitting malcolm x and training day I love that.
Speaker 2:I you know I have never seen either one of those movies and so now I feel very sold on checking those out. You know that's a that's good. Yeah, themselves amazing training day.
Speaker 1:the other really funny thing about training day is that if there's any like, I don't know if it's antoine fukua's direction, if it's the david air script, if it's his performance along with ethan hawke ethan hawke is incredible in that movie and I still think he was robbed of best supporting actor that year but like it's so close to being a garbage crime movie where it's just like on repeat on the usa network or something over and over and over again, because like it is just one of these like dirty cop dramas that almost you're like could this be a sylvester stallone movie? Could this be a steven seagal movie? Like it's not far off from that, but denzel's presence just elevates it and that's what makes it iconic.
Speaker 3:Sounds like the difference maker you're talking about is just emotional honesty. It really is, and you know that can be the thing that can push something into being great If there's just true emotional honesty and performance, yeah. It's really important, no matter what genre or anything. It's like the way that this can, you know, uh, transcend genres, as if it's just there's a great, emotionally honest performances, no matter what.
Speaker 1:And he's got a couple of the material. He's got a couple of lines, too, that are just like they'll go down in history. Just, king Kong ain't got shit on me Like all these. All these lines are so, so good. So that's my number five, cool, and I honestly feel like it's too low now that I've talked about it.
Speaker 2:But what's your number four, erica? Well, I think I'm just choosing this one because I'm so excited to talk about it, but I'm just going to go for it.
Speaker 1:I chose Christoph Waltz as Hans Landa in Inglourious Basterds. This is an honorable mention of mine. Yep, was it Okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of my favorite movies, I think, from Quentin Tarantino. But I just think I love Christoph Waltz. If I could see him in more things I would be so happy about that. But yeah, I just think that when I was thinking about characters who just totally embodied the, the role, I mean I, I just immediately thought of that and, um, I think he was. I was just reading kind of just a little bit ago that, um, leonardo dicaprio was actually supposed to play hans landa, which is like really weird because I cannot see that at all.
Speaker 1:Um, and just having like a, like a german actor play like it, it was just yeah, I could never picture, because not, I mean, the character has to speak not only english, but german and french yeah and I can't picture leo doing that and christoph waltz actually is like he already speaks all those languages bilingual yeah so it was just.
Speaker 2:it's just such a no-brainer and I think that in most roles that I've ever seen him in, like, even like in django, like he's so charming and he's I mean, he's not really a villain in django, but even just like he just has this, like he's so charismatic and you know, that's kind of what makes his role in inglorious bastards Bastards so eerie and like unsettling, because you're like, you're crazy.
Speaker 1:But you're kind of charming me right now.
Speaker 2:Holy shit, like I don't know the whole scene, with them at the table, when he's kind of testing to see if she's Jewish, which is like with the cream, you know, it's like an when he's kind of testing to see if she's Jewish, which is like with the cream. You know it's like an iconic scene. Oh yeah, I just love him so much, I don't know it's so good.
Speaker 3:It's a great call If kids like my buddies you know and I watched this movie like all the way through later on, I'm pretty sure but it's like my high school buddies back when I was in high school and this came out are talking about that performance and the scenes in that movie and these guys have no attention span whatsoever and they're talking about it.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:That's how you know it's good and I remember that being like watching it later, like these are long dialogue, heavy scenes and he pushes everything forward in that performance it.
Speaker 2:It's really good I could watch him talk, all like the whole thing. I mean it just. I don't ever get tired of his dialogue. I don't know, that's great.
Speaker 1:The other wild thing, and it's so funny. You bring that up because whenever I talk about this movie and it's really anchored by his performance too, because he is switching languages the entire time but you catch somebody that doesn't like to watch international cinema, or they can't do subtitles or whatever, and you show them in glorious bastards. They're locked in and I would say, like 60 of that film is non-english and so you watch that movie and it is like you've watched an international production.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I agree that's great, it's so good, it's I almost put them on my list, all right, so what's number four on your list, sal?
Speaker 3:My four is Rachel McAdams as Regina George in Mean Girls.
Speaker 2:I love that this is a goaded pick, that's so funny because I was like I kind of considered that for my list too.
Speaker 3:You could make an argument that's one of the best villain performances of all time in a movie, I mean.
Speaker 3:Good for you, one of the best villain performances of all time in a movie I mean good for you, that's a good one. But like so you connect. There's something about her where it's like you know, you kind of understand why she's doing things that she does and and I just I don't know it's. It's a really good performance and I think it makes it even better later on when you watch the. You know that's a movie that a lot of people watched on repeat over and over again and I think, like a lot of people have probably seen that movie like five to ten times.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, I could recite that movie from front to back Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's like I think she's the big reason why a lot, and then I think it's makes you even appreciate the performance more when you realize that what was she like? Was she like, you know, late 20s or early 30s when she played that part? Should I look it up? Are you allowed to look up siri on if? If you want to?
Speaker 1:look it up, don't look up siri, but but no you're right, she, she was by iPhone and please In. America, america yeah.
Speaker 3:No, I mean she was definitely older than a high school kid. Are you looking up for me? Thank you so much and no, she's great, she's one of the greatest villains of all time.
Speaker 1:And here's how you know the performance has stood the test of time and is a part of pop culture. I'm at this work conference last week and we're doing this like breakout session and it's on sense of belonging and they're having us go to different parts of this room, if you can relate to the statement that they make, and the one of the questions was have you ever been a victim of Regina George? Everyone knows Boom, exactly Everyone. Knew exactly what that meant. Yep, that's Rachel knows exactly, boom, exactly everyone knew exactly what that meant.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's rachel mcadams performance. Yep, that's why. How old is she? I'm seeing a few different things, but sounds like she was, like you know, in her mid to late 20s, so I'm seeing 25 or 27. Ai just told me on google that she was 45 and I'm like that's not true nope I don't even know if she's 45 now she's probably 45.
Speaker 3:She's older. Okay, she was definitely.
Speaker 2:I remember, I feel like I remember reading that she was one of the older girls on the movie.
Speaker 3:And another thing that I think you know goes into the rest of my list is complimentary performances. You can tell that she brought it to a point where it elevated everybody else around her in a complimentary way and just she is really good at making other people in the in the movie look good. You know really look bad, which is good for this movie. But yeah, like it was just such a complimentary performance, I felt like it elevated everybody else's game, you know?
Speaker 2:uh, she's hilarious, um, she does a really good job at kind of like not looking like a stereotypical villain either. You know like I feel like there's some girls out there in these teeny bopper movies where they're like you, look like a villain.
Speaker 3:You look like the mean girl.
Speaker 2:But Rachel, as Regina, she really has a softer look to her. She's blonde, she doesn't wear a whole lot of makeup, she looks like really preppy, and then she has that like fakeness to her where she's like where do you know what? Don't I know you Like, you know she's just so like she does a good job because I, you know, I have. I know people who've met her in real life say that she's really kind in real life. So I feel like she kind of tapped into this like evil version of her. But it's such a like generational thing too. It's kind of a different, like evil back then and you know, whereas I'm sure it's different now with high schoolers. But, um, I just, yeah, she did a really good job at making you like like her and trust her for a second, and then you're like, just kidding you're, you're crazy yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then it ties all up at the end where they she, you know she's sort of redeemed in the end by getting hit by a bus.
Speaker 1:Like she knocked the sense into her.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and I just think it's a great performance and it's one where you can watch it over and over again and still go on the ride and know where it's going, and it's very fun.
Speaker 1:It's a really nuanced performance, like what you're talking about, and I think that it helps make not only her but everyone else the complimentary performances that you're talking about. Sal, I've talked about this all the time. One of these made up episode ideas that we did a long, long time ago was your perfect movie and we didn't. We weren't talking about like, oh, lawrence of arabia is a perfect movie, because, well, that's not fun to talk about on a podcast. It was like your non-traditional movies. What movies are a 10 out of 10 execution and set out to do what they aim to do? And Mean Girls was a film that we talked about a ton on that episode. Mean Girls is a perfect movie. It's pretty funny.
Speaker 1:It's pretty perfect. It really is. It's great, so happy. Happy to talk about Mean Girls anytime on this pod.
Speaker 2:You guys are crushing it right now. I can't wait to hear what your guys's opinions are of the mean girls remake yeah, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1:I haven't either, but another musical.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, they should have marketed it as a musical. They've just been honest to the audience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they'll probably got better reviews yeah, that's, hilarious um, okay, my number four going into the horror genre.
Speaker 1:Here kathy bates as annie wilkes and misery yeah, that's pretty perfect casting yeah, and you just like again, you start to get the way that she reads. The lines that are on the page in that film have become things of legend and and are so iconic. Just call calling James Caan Mr man and all these little so it is. This is getting to be that like gray area where, because we've had this relationship with her you know, this movie is 35 years old now or whatever it is because we've had the relationship with her as Annie for so long, I just can't hear anybody else reading those lines.
Speaker 1:So I start to think about the other actresses who would have probably been up for the role in that moment, and I don't know if it's something about her voice, if it's something about the way that she carries her body, the way that her and james conn have this, this weird chemistry on stage or on screen together. Excuse me, but I'm just like I can't picture anybody else as annie. And so kathy bates, who I think throughout her career, has done a really good job of being like a character actor. You know, you think about her in titanic, you think about her and some other things. She's obviously led movies and is extremely talented, but this was like the one role for her, where she completely disappears into it and just kind of transcends to that next level of like oh shit, man, nobody else could have done this yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fair. I like that movie a lot. It's been a long time since I've watched Misery.
Speaker 1:I rewatched it during the pandemic. It was a really weird movie to watch in isolation. When everyone's feeling trapped, somebody knocks on your door.
Speaker 3:I love your podcast, I'll print it out in a couple episodes Big fan, big fan. Yeah, I have the transcripts right here, yeah.
Speaker 2:Want to go over them.
Speaker 3:I'll be Max.
Speaker 1:Again, though it is, you get a little bit of that, like anytime someone brings up you know a story it's almost like these sub-genres you know of, almost like a stockholm syndrome type of story. You know somebody who just becomes almost a victim to, to their, their captor, it, it, it all circles back to, to misery and no shade, to stephen king and to say that like she's made the book or the character more famous than his source material. But I really think that yeah, she has. Yeah, you know, like it's, it's that's elevated it, she has elevated it. That's kathy bates's movie, that's kathy bates's story.
Speaker 3:It's, it's, it's hers now, I think, and so that's another good testament that's one of those grandma's house movies where I watched at my grandma's house because it was just kind of on tv. When I was a kid my grandma would just like smoke cigarettes and I would like go over her house in middle school and I would just kind of like watch.
Speaker 1:Watch, people's ankle get fucking knocked off.
Speaker 2:Very, we were watching very different movies at Grandma's house.
Speaker 3:Well, I would just kind of like watch what she was watching. I wouldn't ask to change the channel too much because it's my grandma. It's kind of one of those things where I'm like half watching and half listening to my grandma and we're drinking orange soda and she's smoking cigarettes. I love her.
Speaker 1:Oh, she was the greatest Orange soda cigarettes and Stephen King adaptations.
Speaker 3:What a fucking vibe the worst is when you run out of orange sodas in the upstairs fridge and you're all alone.
Speaker 2:You have to go down to the basement. Yes, and my grandma goes. Maybe that's where your basement thing came from.
Speaker 3:Oh. Well, there was the basement freaked me out, so I got to feel like I'm in control and watch all these basement movies, no, but you walk down slow into the basement to grab the thing of Sunkist and then when you go up you're cooking. You're cooking dude. But yeah, I love to smoke cigarettes too, because of being at my grandma's house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Secondhand smoke.
Speaker 3:Man, that's awesome. This podcast matches my secondhand smoke.
Speaker 1:That's a great pick, thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like I should. I feel like I might be stealing one of yours here, but we'll see. I'm going to go with Jack Nicholson in the Shining.
Speaker 1:You are not, but wow, what a great pick Jack Torrance.
Speaker 2:I just felt like it was only appropriate that I reached that. We touched on this one right after misery. So yeah, jack nicholson. Um, who can you imagine playing jack torrence any other way, like I really can't? Um, obviously that's one of my favorite movies of all time and I think that him in theining is truly one of the most terrifying performances I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1:Really. Yeah, I thought about this, I did think about this pick and I also thought about Shelley Duvall a lot as well.
Speaker 2:Mine says Jack Nicholson or Shelley Duvall, both of them, yeah. You could really argue both of them would be like just a great pick, but I had to just go with Jack because I feel like you know he really is. I mean Shelley did such she's such a star of that movie in her own way. But I think as far as just they're so different, like such different performances but she, I think, is she's the more captivating performance from a visual standpoint.
Speaker 1:You think about her eyes and how wide they are, way that she carries herself and her, her incredible outfit, fashion icon um in that film, but and also to just the way she runs around the hotel and all those things. The jack performance. Again, it's more subtle, it's more in the details and it's the little micro expressions that he gives at the bar, when he's talking to lloy, when he really starts going off the deep end. And then that's where because I did give this a lot of thought so I was like, could De Niro have done that? You know, I think you think about the quote unquote easier moments in that film.
Speaker 3:You think could De Niro have done this? I don't think he could. This is what I'm saying, though.
Speaker 1:Because I think, like maybe, some of maybe, when they're touring the overlook at the beginning of the film Sure De Niro could have done that stuff. There's a lot of people that could have done that stuff or whatever.
Speaker 3:Drop the accent a little bit.
Speaker 1:He's there, and I think he's there, but but it's the descent into madness where. That's where I'm like oh no, no, no. This couldn't have been Pacino, this couldn't have been anybody else's, had to have been Jack.
Speaker 2:I mean the scene of him chasing Shelly up the stairs, just like the way he's talking to her. That's one of the most chilling scenes in horror to me, but I think about like that lasting impact. I know the lasting impact.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what if dad went crazy? What if dad went?
Speaker 2:crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I just what about what?
Speaker 3:about him chasing her, though you're about to say oh no that's the quality.
Speaker 2:That is just exactly what I like to do and like just I don't know his facial expressions, but well, like, what I was gonna say is like watching him in movies after the Shining. I feel like that performance almost tainted his other roles for me. Just I mean not to discredit, like his other roles, but like I feel like he does bring this, like he's got this crazed look in his eye half the time.
Speaker 1:That's another great qualifier. Is like a hangover effect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, that's another great qualifier is like a hangover effect. Yeah, exactly like somebody who I'm just like. You see that character maybe in other roles of his like I don't even know if that's true, but that's just kind of what I experience with him specifically. But, um, yeah, I don't know. Yep, I mean one of my all-time favorite films.
Speaker 1:It's a great, great call anchored by two incredible performances. That's another grandma's house movie for me. I remember finishing the shining. I mean one of my all-time favorite films. It's a great, call Me too, anchored by two incredible performances, absolutely, that's another Grandma's House movie for me.
Speaker 3:I remember finishing the Shining at my grandma's house and my dad came to pick me up because she was watching me, watching me In quotes and my hand, you know, shoving the ashtray underneath her couch as my dad comes in the house, seriously Swipping the her couch as my dad comes in the house. Seriously, it was literally at the end of the movie and my dad came in. He's like, oh, the shining, huh, how old are you at this time?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't know. I mean, I would go over to my, my grandma so I live two blocks away from my grandma okay so she was our babysitter, me and my sister.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was, uh, I was. I was probably like 11 or 12 when I when this one happened, but in like middle school I would really go over there like every day. But, um no, my dad came over and he was like the shouting huh, good luck going to sleep tonight. And it didn't scare me actually that much, I think, because I was like sort of halfway watching it if you can't it's hard to get scared when you're halfway watching something.
Speaker 1:Another great time to just plug our sponsor, america, that is, an American upbringing in the late 90s, early 2000s, right there.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:Hell yeah, oh yeah, alright your top three Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka. Oh man, sorry, is that on your list? It's on my list too. Is it your third? It's on my list too, because I yeah Is it, your third.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't really have them ranked to be totally honest.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, no, here we go. Yeah, go for it. Community time both of you, I have a backup. No, no, no yeah just talk about it, let's go.
Speaker 3:It emotional honesty. He could have phoned it in. You know it's all these kind of things we're talking about now. They're all starting to come together as we get to the you know threes and the twos and the ones he could have phoned it in. He didn't. He put so much into that performance. He I've heard you know stories about how he really fought to do certain things because of his take on the character and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:And then you're like, wow, I'm so glad that's in the movie, it's iconic. Blah, blah, blah. And then he's funny, he's serious. You believe him when he's serious. You believe him when he's excited. You believe him. When he's just joking around and being silly, he's scary. You believe him when he's scary. There him when he's just joking around and being silly, he's scary. You believe him. When he's scary, there's no knowing where we're going. When you say that people know exactly what you're talking about and I think it's one I don't know if I so I think 2006 is when the johnny depp one came out and I'm pretty sure 2006.
Speaker 3:There was like five remakes that year. I kind of remember this, that like year, that winter, you know, or whatever, and I remember that's like one of the one time. That's one of the only times I can remember where somebody was cast as a character, and no matter where you were at. We went. Went to a birthday party. Everybody's like did you see Johnny Depp's gonna be Willy Wonka? That's fucking horrible.
Speaker 3:And then you go to, like you know, you go out to eat somewhere with your family, your uncle's like did you see where they cast Willy Wonka? That's fucking horrible. And then he blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I literally remember the tour of people saying how bad it was going to be. And then the movie came out and people were saying that was a disgrace, they should have never remade it. Yeah, so I really think, because he's so good in that movie and, honestly, everybody Once again another thing, we're talking about complimentary performances he's so good in that movie that people, without even seeing a remake, were like this is going to be horrible, like boycott it. Blah, blah, whatever. You know, I'm not going to see that. So he's up there for me. I love, I think he's great I think he's great.
Speaker 1:Well, here's another um little qualifier that we haven't only talked about. But I mean, we brought up pop culture and how things last. But when you look at like Halloween costumes, people don't do the Johnny Depp Willy Wonka, they don't do the Timothy Chalamet Willy Wonka, you get the curly haired wig and you do the Gene Wilder version of Willy Wonka.
Speaker 2:Yeah, his little somersault.
Speaker 3:You could even say the Willy Wonka version of Willy Wonka, you the willy wonka version of willy wonka.
Speaker 1:you know what I mean like, yeah, like that's, that's my willy wonka and it like that's another good one too, where you can do the page to screen analogy or or examination of like. When you're reading the roald dahl book, for some reason you think of you just think of gene kelly while you're reading that book. Like that's the Gene Kelly or Gene Wilder Excuse me, that's the image you get in your head.
Speaker 3:Absolutely no, yeah yeah, I mean he's great and it. Like you know watching that movie as a really little kid you know it was a great performance. When your parents are like, yeah, he's also. Like years later he's also in this. Or you know your dad puts in a DVD or VCR or something else that he's in, you're like why is Willy Wonka in this? If you say, why is Willy Wonka in this? That's how you know, that's how you know that was perfect casting.
Speaker 2:I mean come on.
Speaker 3:Go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, I just I totally agree. I love at casting like I mean, come on, let's go ahead. No, I just I totally agree. I I love, like the whole willie wonka universe. I think I really revisited this past year, like recently actually, I watched um the og version and I did not like the timothy chalamet version at all I'm not watching it I don't understand.
Speaker 2:I mean I guess I can really try to like take my own love of gene wilder's willie wonka out of it and be like, okay, I guess you know it's a good like family movie, but I just I saw it and I was just mortified like it, because to me willie wonka is this crazed man like you know who, what, whatever happened is hauled up in his own chocolate factory and he's Gene Wilder, right, and he is Gene Wilder's Willy Wonka. I mean just blown away by how like he's, absolutely he's hilarious and he has so many like dry little remarks to the kids that like totally would go over a kid's head, you know. But as an adult you watch it, you're like, oh my God, this is hilarious, this is so funny. And then watching him take all the kids and the parents on the boat, that scared me so bad when I was a kid. And so you have this, like you know, but I don't he had.
Speaker 2:he really touched on so many like emotions throughout the film, like where he's like not a bad person but he is, like you know, kind of maniacal yeah, he's a little fucked in the head and I really appreciated that, because you kind of have to be to like just for his position in the story, just like I don't know I've never read the road roll doll version um, yeah so I guess I didn't really know any better like anyone else, but yeah, I just, I think just his range in that film alone is just so impressive. It just makes me appreciate him as an actor.
Speaker 1:So I think too, for people of our age and you know the generations under us and even a few below or above us I think you probably watch the movie, maybe before you come to the books, and so, as you're reading the book for the first time and third or fourth, or whenever you're reading that in grade school, it's like you're just already picturing Gene Wilder. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah no and like no, it's not even important. Sorry.
Speaker 2:Is that good on podcast to be?
Speaker 3:about to say something and then go no, nevermind. Yeah, I mean you got to be real, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:This is one take. I'll say one take there's.
Speaker 3:This happens almost every year. Somebody was like gene wilder died, and I'm like you're looking at a memory post. He died like two years ago or three, you know how long it's been. They go, oh, and it's like he won't die in our minds.
Speaker 1:Some people forget he died I should send this to you. I was just talking to somebody about it the other day. A really funny. There's been all these like try the substance kind of post where they take old celebrities and they put them next to new celebrities, like they've done the substance. And it's gene wilder in his prime, like in his youthful prime, and it's like try the substance.
Speaker 2:And it's next to a picture of um jeremy allen, grant or whatever, jeremy allen white jeremy allen white from from the bear, and it's so funny I mean everyone, always I love the bear, I'm a big fan, and so I see, I feel like I see no matter, like at least several times a month, to some reference to j Allen White as a young Gene Wilder. And it's pretty crazy yeah, he should have been Wonka. Yeah, absolutely, that's funny, all right.
Speaker 1:My number three. And now these. These are gonna kind of just start to turn into like Homer picks. I just went through my blue rays, I went through my top 10 list, my top 50 list, whatever. Literally, as I'm looking around the studio right now, all three of these characters are represented on posters in here. So I'm like shit, but I mean, I guess that's me being true to myself.
Speaker 1:So my number three is jake gyllenhaal, is donnie darko and donnie darko I just watched that the other night so I started going through and I'm I'm reading the casting trivia parts on IMDb and I'm like, all right, let me try to be objectionable here and see who else was auditioning for the role and if they could have fit. So here's a little bit of like the too old to play a kid in high school, but I guess they still audition. Vince Vaughn absolutely not. Now, think about it. I think people think that Donnie Darko is like it's place in time, where you like, if you ask somebody when did donnie darko come out, and they're like, oh, it's like 2007 or something right, and you're like, no, it's like 2000. It came out a lot longer ago than I think people think. So think about all these actors 25 years ago. But so vince vaughn absolutely not.
Speaker 3:Mark walberg absolutely not like having dreams yeah, hey say hi to your rabbit. For me like no 100 no I love he's like wait what but you know what? That's not no mark walberg says wait, what's?
Speaker 1:in every movie wait what wait what? What did you? What? Now this is getting a little bit closer to, I think, working, but it's still. It's not Jake Gyllenhaal, but someone like Jason Schwartzman, I think a little too quirky. You can't have somebody be, you can't. This is he's in a lot of Wes Anderson films Rushmore.
Speaker 2:Jason Schwartzman. Yeah, I just Absolutely, not, absolutely not no.
Speaker 1:And so you know, pick any actor who's about you know, 45 to 50. Right now I'm staring at Johnny Darko right now and you're staring at Jake Gyllenhaal. I know, you know it's so funny. I think about this a lot too, because there's a really funny story that one of my sister's ex-boyfriends tells about how a friend of his once went and got a tattoo. So we're talking permanent ink for life of King Leonidas and I'm doing this in air quotes from 300. But this guy got tattooed on his leg. A big old thigh tattoo was Gerard Butler's portrayal of King Leonidas from the film 300. And so my sister's ex-boyfriend's like that's not King Leonidas.
Speaker 1:You got a tattoo of Gerard Butler, and that's laughable, that is hilarious. That story has brought me to tears so many different times. But like if you saw somebody if you saw somebody now, of course, donnie darko donnie darko is not a historical figure, right but like if you saw somebody with a tattoo of jake gyllenhaal as donnie darko there's no making fun of that, like that's just cool, like you wouldn't, like you know, it's donnie darko listen, man listen as somebody.
Speaker 1:It's not my style, either, as somebody who doesn't have any tattoos, the last thing I'm gonna do, or the first thing I'm gonna do, is get a tattoo of like another guy portraying a character from a film inked on my body for life.
Speaker 3:It's different. If it's okay, he's, he's playing a character, that's just this thing as opposed to like you should have just got the historical figure. If you want a King Leonidas, go figure out what King. Leonidas looked like you know kind of deal.
Speaker 1:I agree with what you're saying it's better, it's better right in my head and I pictured Jake Gyllenhaal and kind of that mop top of like black hair and the way that he again is talking in that film and the way that he's using his body and he's doing a lot of like physical acting in the role, even though it's not a movie where he has to run around a lot, but just kind of the way that he's like when you can tell he's he's been in a trance, he's he's had a trip the night before and he's just moving real slow around the kitchen. And then the way that he's like when you can tell he's he's been in a trance, he's he's had a trip the night before and he's just moving real slow around the kitchen. And then the way that he talks to different people in his life, his friends versus the jenna malone character versus maggie jill, and I think it really helps too that he actually has his real life sister playing his sister in the film. Like it just feels like such a connected performance and it's just one of my all-time favorite movies and it's one that I feel like I also don't really get a shout out too much on the pod and it is sort of one of those like letterbox film bro kind of movies.
Speaker 1:But I think people have gotten away from that and forgotten, like, just how interesting of a film it is and it's really anchored by this really good performance from a young actor who, of course, went on to do incredible things like you could say donnie darko and nightcrawler. You could say or excuse me, see, I almost I called jake gyllenhaal donnie darko. Yeah, you can do jake gyllenhaal and nightcrawler. You could do jake gyllenhaal and prisoners. He's, he's another one of these actors who kind of disappears into roles. This is the first time he did it and he did it at an extremely young age, and so I give him a ton of credit for it.
Speaker 3:Did you think the guy from the main, guy from it's what's Inside, gave you Jake Gyllenhaal vibes? Which one In the first couple?
Speaker 2:Oh, like the couple.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the guy. I love the two of you trying to have this conversation while staying a little spoiler free here.
Speaker 2:I'm like there's a few guys, but you're talking about like. The main two characters in the beginning of the movie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, he's jerking off. The guy who's jerking off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know the guy who's jerking off, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like Jake Gyllenhaal vibes. No, I didn't really think about that.
Speaker 3:I thought he kind of looked and kind of he did remind me of somebody Don't say cranking it.
Speaker 2:Going to prison, sir.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you have a girl on the podcast now Can't say cranking it, that's worse than saying that's worse than anything. You can say that's just cranking it out.
Speaker 1:I'll use anatomical terms next time.
Speaker 3:Okay, Don't say worse than saying twisting it out. Well, yeah, I was just cranking it out. I'll use anatomical terms next time. Okay, that's like worse than saying twisting it out.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, yeah, oh, my God no one twists it.
Speaker 1:He didn't give you those five minutes.
Speaker 3:We're done with all this. We're cutting this all out.
Speaker 2:You didn't think so, I don't think so. I mean, I didn't really think of it. Guess, now I could maybe picture it, but he did remind me of somebody, and now I can't think of who it was. But no, he didn't give me jake gyllenhaal vibes. Okay. I was gonna say, though, about donnie darko like I just feel like jake gyllenhaal gives me like moody, like he just has always kind of been this dark, mysterious man to me, and I just feel like those kind of roles were made for him, like he did, or he was made for those kind of roles, whatever you want to say.
Speaker 2:But um, yeah, like I'm looking at that poster right now and I'm like he is donnie darko, I mean yeah, he, he really is, and especially like at that young age, and then, like you said, just to see what kind of roles he's done, like later in his career, and you know, he just you don't really see him in a lot of other like only other person who I kind of thought maybe could have pulled it off would have been like Ryan Gosling.
Speaker 1:But I just don't know at that time if it would, if the role would have turned into be this thing of like cult fascination.
Speaker 2:If it's. If it's.
Speaker 1:Ryan Gosling in the role.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think so either.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, my third was, I you know, I think just kind of going like Gene Wilder. So do you want to go to your next one? Because I feel like that was.
Speaker 1:Well, we're on our twos now. Oh, are we on our twos Because he's the end of the three.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well then I think I'm going to go with, because I have two left that I could talk about, but I really want to say Meryl Streep as Miranda Priestly. I know I kind of mentioned that on the last when we talked about.
Speaker 1:I was hoping you would bring it back up, because I was kind of dogging Meryl a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well we were talking about how, like you know, using examples of like okay, you know what did you what movie.
Speaker 2:Kramer versus Kramer versus Kramer, and like how Meryl Streep is an incredible actress. I mean, she's just phenomenal. But could somebody else have played that role as well as she did? You know, most likely. But then I kind of, you know, argued back to Alex saying that well, what about Miranda Priestley? And like that character and how iconic you know she is in the Devil Wears Prada, and like like I don't really think anyone else could have done that as bad as good as she can, because I think that meryl streep is a very dynamic actress and you
Speaker 2:know, we've seen her in so many different roles and, um, you know, she, we see her in a lot of like really soft roles and miranda is anything. But you know, I mean she's very complex and um, we see that kind of later in the film. But, um, you know, she's got this like really hard exterior, which doesn't it? You know, you see a lot of interviews and just merrill out like at you know, awards and she just does seem like a really kind, like just gentle ish being, you know, and so her transforming into miranda priestly is just unbelievable. It's great gorgeous. I mean physically she's beautiful too. She just plays that like on you know her as like the magazine editor, she really looks the part, um, she looks high fashion you know she she um, and then, yeah, just her just, very just elegant villain you know um, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think what she's doing in this film is a lot like what Denzel did in training day, where he's using the audience's perception of him himself and, in this case, herself, and what we know they're the typical Meryl Streep character to be based off of her catalog of of work and and so, to use this, this cachet kind of against us as an audience member, is what helps make this role in particular so memorable.
Speaker 1:Because you're like I remember that one time that Meryl, kind of like she got us, she, she really like surprised us with something that wasn't just like you know, a period piece, and she's dressed up and she's she's playing a mom or she's she's playing, you know, someone in Hollywood, you know whatever you think of as your kind of typical Meryl performances. This is like, again, he talks to somebody and you ask him your Mount Rushmore, meryl Streep performances? Yeah, you talk to somebody and you ask them your Mount Rushmore and Meryl Streep performances. Yeah, you're going to get the romantic comedies and everything else, but if they don't mention Devil Wears Prada, I think that's an incomplete list. Smoking crack yeah, if you don't mention it yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 3:I think that's one of those movies where it just almost is so effortless for her. I know, and a lot of her performances. It just doesn't look like she's trying that hard.
Speaker 3:It just looks like she's just being I love her so much, kind of comes down to just being she just kind of doesn't look like, she's just like oh yeah, I get what it is and just does it and just is the thing. And I like I've had a dvd, uh, one of those tvs with like small tv with a dvd player built in in my room, and that's one of those movies where, like, I went into like my sister's room and like, just like, like was looking through her movies and she was gone, just like grabbed, like a couple, and I, like you know, I'm probably like 13 and I watched the devil wears prada, like alone by myself, like almost like it's just like I just need to watch something at night and then I'm like this is really good.
Speaker 2:Do I tell anybody about this? It's one of those movies that, like it's really good yeah, I'm cranking it all of a sudden.
Speaker 3:No, stop, You're going to jail man. It's over. I told you it's over.
Speaker 1:It's okay, man. Nobody's cranking it To Meryl Streep, and Devil Wears Prada.
Speaker 3:Dirty boy, dirty man.
Speaker 2:Oh man Okay.
Speaker 1:You know who I think has kind of lost sight of that effortless nature to their acting, which is kind of too bad. Now I haven't seen this film so who knows, maybe she's great in the role. But I saw this trailer for the new kate winslet movie lee. Have you seen?
Speaker 2:this. Yeah, I haven't seen it, but I saw the trailer it looks like she's trying so hard and it just bums me out me too?
Speaker 2:yeah, I hope that's not the case, but I think it is, though yeah, um, yeah, I think the devil wears prada is like it's this movie that has a lot of like you know, definitely appeals to like the girls and the gays and but then you see, like that, like a lot of men actually really enjoy this because it is a really great performance from not only Meryl Streep but Anne Hathaway and we have we see like Emily Blunt in this, one of the first times we see her in a film. We have Stanley Tucci.
Speaker 1:Shout out Adrian Grenier.
Speaker 2:Oh God, I love him. Yeah he's great and that to.
Speaker 1:Vinnie Chase, if we were doing TV roles Entourage.
Speaker 2:Adrian Grenier Chase.
Speaker 1:I think he's Vinnie Chase before he's Adrian Grenier.
Speaker 2:I've never seen Entourage.
Speaker 3:I've watched only a couple episodes. Oh, really that surprised me and now I really want to watch it because I heard jamie what's her last jamie, what's her name? Who plays meadow soprano on the sopranos like does a season and a half yeah, she's in a couple. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, but no, yeah, it's mental sleep's amazing and the worst product, yeah, sequel sequel.
Speaker 1:Have I heard that there's a sequel to devil wears product?
Speaker 2:no, freaky friday is next year well, I think they're doing another. Um, oh they're doing a princess diaries three, another princess okay, is that it?
Speaker 1:so I'm pretty sure that's what you're probably confused. Okay, another anne hathaway property coming.
Speaker 2:If I ever see a Devil Wears Prada sequel, I will absolutely be on the front lines of a protest. That would be. I could go on and on about how I feel about these unnecessary sequels that are coming out years and years later, but I would be very devastated to see that there's no need for that.
Speaker 3:That's great If anyone's listening, don't do it I need to watch that movie again, and I also need to watch Misery and the Shining again before it's too late.
Speaker 1:I hate to tell you I'm reading right now shooting for the sequel of the Devil Wears Prada 2 is expected to begin on the 30th of November. Who's?
Speaker 2:in it. You're kidding.
Speaker 1:I don't know what did you say you were going to do.
Speaker 3:if that was true, you just said it a second ago I'll literally go down and protest myself.
Speaker 1:Sorry, a sequel is in the works in development by Disney with Streep and. Emily Blunt reportedly set to bring back their roles. No, anne Hathaway. No, anne Hathaway, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I said ann hathaway, I'm sorry you said who's reprising their roles meryl and emily blunt of course.
Speaker 1:Okay, sorry, I'll be quiet that's directed by john krasinski too. No, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:I'm kidding about that part he definitely came up with a quiet place. It was all him right. Have you seen that?
Speaker 1:like wasn't even really him, was it not? Oh no, I didn't know that I know he's got a co-writer on the film he like, probably he like bought.
Speaker 3:He like bought the like story and now he like pretends like it's like him interesting and it's like it wasn't you. You're a liar. No fact check me. Anybody no fact checks on this podcast. Nope, okay, uh me, yeah. Number two I'm doing. You did it, so I get to do it too is this our number two or number one?
Speaker 1:this is our number two yeah, you just did your two okay, uh, the gene double double entry, kind of three, you use gene as your third.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, and then you just did your two, okay. Uh, I have a double dose, one because I think it's pretty even, but I'm going with gary oldman and michael kane, gary oldman as jim gordon and michael kane as alfred and the Dark Knight trilogy. I mean it's perfect, it is Amazing, it is Good choice. That's Jim Gordon, that's Alfred, they are them. They deliver insanely good performances.
Speaker 2:I would say Michael Caine, as Alfred is like the yes, it's perfect, unbelievable casting.
Speaker 3:Like you care about them. You care about them, you care about them.
Speaker 1:I just think that every english butler ever is michael cain yeah, that's so true I mean you, the.
Speaker 3:You know we could talk about dark knight rises and problems with it all day long, but Not with me, kent, you like it. Oh yeah, Dark Knight Rises.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, I like it too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, you're in the same space. My bad, sorry. Do I have to defend Tom Hardy blowing up Heinz Field.
Speaker 3:There's only one major plot hole that I have a problem with, but we can talk about that later. I could go on about it for 45 minutes.
Speaker 1:It's about coming out of the cave? Yeah, crawling out of the cave with a broken back, like a month later. Why did you take the rope off Listen let's not go down this literal hole.
Speaker 3:Yes, literally no. I think they're both perfect Gary Oldman's amazing, Michael Caine's amazing Complimentary performances. I can't not picture them for the most part, especially Jim Gordon, especially Jim Gordon. I mean the mustache is perfect.
Speaker 1:We're talking about mustaches, it's the mustache and the way he wears the glasses, like everything that's perfect he wears those glasses yes, and you know easily they could have been.
Speaker 3:You know they could. Oh this, this movie's not about me, it's about batman. It's about the villain. The villains overshadow batman a lot of the time. You know what I mean, and they both understand how important they are and the writing is so good. I don't know. I think they're just perfect picks and are like seeing their growth throughout all the movies too. And you know, both of them are in Batman Begins and they're involved in all that In Batman Begins the time jumpy stuff and the cuts. I remember the first time I watched Batman Begins I was kind of confused.
Speaker 1:It's a little disorienting still.
Speaker 3:I think, and where you are in the story, those guys deliver great performances, even though it's like kind of all over the place, but yeah, they're great. I kind of can't, you know, I can't pick between the two. That's why I put them both there. I think it's pretty equal they're between the two. That's why I put them both there. I think it's pretty equal they're, they're both. They're both perfect and made them. Now we're going to start getting into the money. Made a bunch of money and I think they're a part of that. Made a bunch of money.
Speaker 1:But but like in kind of the right way, if that makes sense. Right and like this is chris well, but this is this, it's franchise, ip.
Speaker 1:Right, it's stuff that I'm not the biggest fan of and yet at the same time, like I think it's the best work that christopher nolan's ever done, was like telling that that story over three films incredible stuff when you re-watch. When I re-watched the dark knight rises especially, it's almost like michael caine's performance in that. And at the end there is almost to the point where, like when I re-watched lord of the rings and vigo mortensen, you know he tells the four hobbits like you bow to no one, like there's a couple of of alfred's speeches to to bruce. At the end of that, when he's telling him like I can't watch you do this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, where I'm just like I'm a blubbering mess, yeah, it's, it's it's, it's really well done and I you know the nod at Italy. In the end there is so good. And they did an interview a couple years ago where they're like, no, that's real. That's the actual ending of the movie he lived.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh, like Christian Bale said that, he's like no, that's the real, it's not a dream or a hopeful scene. And I'm like, I even like that even more.
Speaker 1:It's insane Good for Bruce dream, or like a hopeful scene, and I'm like I even like that, even more than it's really good.
Speaker 3:Good for bruce and selena. Yeah, selena kyle, yeah, no great. Yeah, they did great. Yeah, I, I, I could, um, I re-watch those movies every couple of years and uh, yeah, those. You know those are two performances that are so well done that they're great through line characters in the Batman universe and they just do such a good job. You're actually really scared for Jim Gordon's kid in the end of the Dark Knight because you don't want to see his family get ripped apart. It's beautiful. Yeah, good pick, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good pick.
Speaker 1:That's a really good pick. All right, my number two, also represented here in the studio Sigourney Weaver, as Ellen Ripley in Alien.
Speaker 2:Oh good.
Speaker 1:So again, someone else who I'm like. I don't know if it's because I've just always had the attachment to your character in this film, or if it's because I've just always had the attachment to your character in this film, or if it's because I just and you know, I'm not alive when this movie comes out, so I don't know. Like, is it bridget fonda? Like who else could it possibly be? I'm reading the casting on imdb. The aforementioned meryl streep was the other horse in this race and you think about that now, a two-horse race for ellen ripley and it's sigourney weaver or meryl streep I never knew that what happens to meryl streep's career if she ends up getting that role.
Speaker 1:And the only reason I guess why she didn't get the role is because she was grieving the loss of her husband, john um caviezel, or, uh, yeah, kazelle, john kazelle john kazelle was her husband at the time had passed away. So she's grieving and I'm just thinking.
Speaker 3:So I'm just, I'm like kind of makes you believe in everything happens for a reason. What a sliding doors moment, right like what happens to merrill's career?
Speaker 1:what happens to the alien franchise? It does the where's this movie live now in in cult history like? Does it become this, this thing that's almost more a part of merrill's career as opposed to ridley scott's career, or just in this greater sci-fi universe, um, subgenre of films? So such a weird thing to think about there. But no, I mean, sigourney is ellen ripley for so many different reasons. The way that they shoot her in that film to make her look like she's almost as tall as the xenomorph herself. Like I just think about the way that she's presented on screen the big, curly hair.
Speaker 1:She seems just extremely long, all of all you know, just the way that she's presented, the way she interacts with the cat, it all feels so like romantic almost at times. And you know, you know there's I. I think it's so cool that that Ripley or, excuse me, ridley and and Walter Hill, one of the producers on the film, the way that they've always kept these really strong female characters at the center of these alien stories, like you can see, you see it in Prometheus, you see it in covenant, we just saw it with Romulus, and Sigourney's really the catalyst to that, she's the one that starts all of that, and I think that it's no surprise that when you pull up a list of your greatest heroines in cinema history, she's on the short list of one of the best. And so all of that, I think, just speaks to her place, you know, in film history as just this incredible embodiment of a character. And I mean, like I know some people have a relationship with her because of Avatar or some of these other franchises that she's been attached to or other performances. But like it, you know, when she sadly passes the top of the obituary is going to be like for roles such as Ellen Ripley in the alien franchise, like that's what Sigourney Weaver is forever tied to is that franchise.
Speaker 1:So, and again, just one of my all time favorite movies, and I'm like you can say that like Jamie Lee Curtis, maybe in Halloween yeah, that's true, for like that first film, but like that franchise. And now, this isn't any fault to the actor and the performance of a given movie, but like those become Michael Myers movies, right, like alien, it, it, it's, there's the xenomorph across all movies, but it really is like, whichever movie you're watching, it's about that strong female character in the center of it, totally, and so that that to me is just like so important, um, for a genre that I think always does a good job horror slash, sci-fi that always does a really good job of like giving women a lot to do on screen, um, so, yeah, shout out to ellen ripley good, I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's that's a great pick. Yeah, you believe that she can. She can pull it off, you do at the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's some movies where it's like veronica cartwright in the same movie is just screaming her head off and you're like, well, your time's, your time's about to come.
Speaker 3:That's what I, that's what I'm saying. It's like you genuinely believe it in a good way that she can defeat the alien and survive. There are other movies where you're like the strong, what they're trying to make the strong female lead You're like they probably die if the monster got to them. You know what I mean, or?
Speaker 1:you also just kind of don't, you don't have that connection to him Like you think? About other iconic horror films and, like you know, shout out nev campbell. But like I don't really care about sydney prescott in the scream movies, I'm here to watch ghostface like have fun.
Speaker 3:You're right, you're, you are right and an alien.
Speaker 1:I'm like I'd if kill that, kill the alien.
Speaker 2:Let's go, let's go, yeah sigourney Weaver gives me like badass warrior vibes.
Speaker 1:For sure Like Amazonian. Yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think that, yeah, in those kind of roles she does really make a lot of sense, sigourney Weavey, yeah. Well, I guess I'll so my. I'm going to finish it off with my pick Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal.
Speaker 3:Lecter yeah.
Speaker 2:It's been like full disclosure. It's been a long time since I've actually watched this movie, but his performance is obvious, like the obvious standout. Like you know, you ask anyone who's seen Silence of the Lambs, or if you even think about Anthony Hopkins, I think a lot of people are just immediately going to go to Hannibal Lecter. Yes, I, he was one of those picks also that I kind of like meditated on where I was, like who else could I see as this? And you know, maybe there could be. But like I just think that he really takes that level. It's very like Jack Nicholson kind of. You know, like the performance is super mental and it's all very like in his like his expression and just I don't know, I think that he really he carried that whole, the whole movie.
Speaker 1:Another one that I think kind of pass. It passes the tattoo test where if you saw somebody with a hannibal lecter tattoo, yeah, you wouldn't be like dude.
Speaker 2:You have a tattoo of anthony hopkins on your arm, yeah you would be like that's hannibal you got a cool hannibal lecter tattoo yeah, I mean, and he's, it's such an iconic, you know movie in the horror community too. It's just, I mean, he really is hannibal lecter he's.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's honestly one of the most. You can make the argument that it is the most efficient performance of all time, because he has less than 30 minutes of screen time.
Speaker 2:That's so true, yeah.
Speaker 1:In the Silence of the Lambs, and he wins Best Actor.
Speaker 2:I was just looking at him like he won an award for this right, yeah. But yeah, that's just a crazy.
Speaker 3:It's insane, he was so good he even created a mandela effect. You ever heard the hello clarice mandela effect? No he never says it in the movie apparently you're kidding. He never says hello, clarice, he never says that in the movie he says like hello, agent starling, right, but you have been told but yeah like hello hello apparently never says in the movie that's oh.
Speaker 3:Now I have to go back and watch whoa I might have just pissed people off even more if he like definitely does, and that was like a bad article like this guy's, so unqualified to be on the pod clearly. Oh good, I can't wait to get into my number one, okay, so it goes. Silence of the lambs. Hannibal lecter okay, okay, and then is it. Red dragon is the third one.
Speaker 1:So so of the hannibal lecter story it actually goes manhunter, which is a michael man film from like 1986 or something. I think what's manhunter is? First is the red dragon story. It's the first version of the red dragon story wait, wait.
Speaker 3:Now I'm confused.
Speaker 1:Yep, so it goes, manhunter manhunter's, the first iteration of, like the hannibal lecter universe, then silence of the silence of the sequel. Technically, it's just a continuation of the story, which was the movie and then you have Hannibal, ridley Scott, hannibal and that has Gary Oldman with his face messed up. No, john Voight with his face messed up that's Gary Oldman. I totally forgot about these movies let's bet money right now, continue talking about, and then Red Dragon so Red Dragon, and then is there any more after that.
Speaker 3:I'm not counting the TV show. That's like the network TV show. No, that's as far as theatrical releases, no Red Dragon the last one.
Speaker 2:I honestly didn't even. I just knew of Silence of the. Lambs Silence of the Lambs. Well, and then Hannibal Lecter, or Hannibal or whatever it is, I don't even know.
Speaker 1:Can we get God? You are right, it is Gary Oldman. Why did I always think that was John Voight?
Speaker 3:So here's another thing about Gary Oldman is that he's so good. You forget that it's Air Force One, air Force One. I'm watching that movie and I go in the last ten minutes of the movie. I go is the bad guy, gary.
Speaker 2:Oldman. There's so many movies with him like that, where you're like, even in the last decade I would say you hear about the cast and you're like, wait, where is he? And then you're like that's Gary Oldman. Yeah, All in disguise, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you gave him a shout out as Commissioner Gordon and we're talking about him again now, because I think he he's such a good character actor, but he's also such like he's one best actor, you know, like he's the greatest.
Speaker 3:He's so good you can make an argument.
Speaker 1:He's the greatest actor walton, there's an argument.
Speaker 3:There's certainly an argument to be made, wow can you go down the line and just say the hannibal thing before you move on really quick?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, just the the sequel is hannibal, that's like.
Speaker 3:Lambs. And that's the one that Gary Oldman's in. And then Red Dragon's after that.
Speaker 1:Which is Ed Norton and Ralph Fiennes, and then it goes TV after that.
Speaker 3:I'm going to watch Red Dragon soon.
Speaker 1:Red Dragon. Fun fact first R-rated film I ever saw in a theater. Wow, were you scared. I was pretty scared Red Dragon's horrifying at times, really scary. No, were you scared? I was pretty scared, red Dragon's horrifying at times.
Speaker 3:I've never seen that Really scary.
Speaker 1:No spoilers. I can't wait to watch it. I love the.
Speaker 3:Hannibal series.
Speaker 2:God, I forgot about Hannibal.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, anyway, that's yeah. Have you seen Hannibal?
Speaker 2:It's been. I think I've seen it like a long time ago, but it's not something like. I don't know that. I've revisited Hannibal.
Speaker 3:It would have been so much better if Jodie Foster did it. Yeah, not Julianne Moore. Yeah, because Julianne Moore she's still great, she's good, she's good in it.
Speaker 1:She still brought it you know it's a weird movie in Ridley Scott's career too. Hannibal is.
Speaker 3:I didn't know that he directed it. The last scene is great, though.
Speaker 1:I mean once you get over the fact that it's not Jodie Foster or that she didn't do it, for whatever reason.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's just the back of her, back of the character that's supposed to be her Exactly. Once you get over that, you're like, okay, this is actually really good. But cool.
Speaker 1:It's a great pick. Let's hear it, Mr America. Okay, well.
Speaker 3:Mr Money Max, can you edit the Star Spangled Banner over underlying everything?
Speaker 1:I do, I'm sure you will. I don't think there's any licensing restrictions on the Star Spangled Banner. It's gotta be public domain. You know who owns it America, we do. You know who?
Speaker 2:pays for it. We're the taxpayers.
Speaker 3:Robert Downey Jr. Okay, well, I want to say this, I want to say this before I go on For my five through two, five to two. Yeah, you can say subjective opinions, sure, and I truly mean this and I really do.
Speaker 1:We made you come up with five through two Exactly. Number one's in your blood.
Speaker 3:I'm going to say number one's in my blood. I'm gonna number one's in my blood. Well, my number one is not an opinion, it's fact and I will say it till the day I die okay you'll get it tattooed on you. I'll get it, I'll get the man's face tattooed on my body by the way, we should call that guy that'd be crazy.
Speaker 3:I could like I heard you scheduled an appointment to get your tattoo removed and then let's see what tattoo he brings up. That'd be a crazy way to end the podcast. He goes what tattoo? And then we go you know, you know, you know the tattoo. I would love to do that, sparta.
Speaker 1:Come on, Sparta.
Speaker 2:He's just already ashamed. Oh, I didn't make it Anyway.
Speaker 3:He's just already ashamed. Oh, I didn't make it anyway. Okay, sorry, this is true, this is fact. This is the objective truth. Robert downey jr as tony stark, as iron man, is the greatest casting choice of all time and and it's also true that it's not even close. It's not even close. He's the number one, greatest of all time. Let's pull up some numbers right stats to back it up casting robert downey jr as iron man led to the mcu $29.8 billion that's so true. Gross yeah. Right, I forget that $29.8 bees billion profit.
Speaker 1:It's more than some countries have in the bank. Huh, that's more than some countries have in the bank. That's insane.
Speaker 3:It also led to let's not even talk about the fucking shows. It led to 34, 30, sorry, 33 movies after casting him as iron man, 33 movies and in my opinion, a lot of those movies are b's. A lot of those movies are b b pluses a couple a's. I think Infinity War is amazing. That's one of my favorite movies of all time. You know, it's just he's so good and the fact that they took a gamble on him.
Speaker 1:This is where I really like the pic.
Speaker 3:This is where it's an American story. They took a gamble on this guy.
Speaker 2:I love this man's comeback story, like I really do, like I'm just, I'm here, I'm here for him, it's the greatest of all time.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know talk it's. He's so good in the role. I think the oscars are corrupt and there are a bunch of criminals that run the Academy Awards and it's sad to watch every year. I still watch it, I still love it, but it's sad to watch what they do to some of these people in their dreams who really deserve awards. But Robert Downey Jr the fact that he didn't get nominated for Best Actor in an Endgame as just like a nod is crazy to me. He didn't get nominated right for an end game. No, no, no. That's crazy to me. They can't even just nominate him just to give him a nod of like Like a thank you. Look what you did. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Exactly, he won his first Oscar last year right from Oppenheimer.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure he did. That was his first win He'd been nominated for, like Chaplin and something else.
Speaker 3:But that was his first win, his first win as supporting, yeah, or just first Oscar win after Oscar Award in general. But, yeah, he's so perfect, he is Iron man. You know, complimentary performance, all the things we talked about, emotional honesty, emotional honesty, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And then the one to cap it all off is that it led to 33 more movies, which is a crazy amount of movies in a series. Yes, yeah. And $29, $30 billion.
Speaker 1:Here's another good point too, because I'm not sure too, because I'm not sure and I don't think you probably know this number off the top of your head, but but say roughly six or seven other movies where he proved it, where it's not like he isn't in those other, some of those other marvel movies that you're talking about, and so the fact that he can play the same character multiple times in different films and you're never like we kind of need a new iron man, you know like, because you didn't see that now on it, obviously, the the feige, the kevin feige vision was to keep your actors the same. However, there was recastings for hulk, and I know this, you know universes, yeah universes changed.
Speaker 1:Guys came and they went contracts, whatever different projects with different movies, all these other things but like you could have, people would have watched 10 movies with him as tony stark.
Speaker 3:Yeah and people are begging for him to come. Well, he's coming, coming back to play dr doom, you know, and it's like, yeah, and we don't even but you see the response to that.
Speaker 1:People are like yeah, how could you exactly?
Speaker 2:you're iron man, I mean he really is like the goat in the marvel community.
Speaker 3:He's the greatest, it's like and honestly too.
Speaker 1:Just I don't. I think that a lot of people you know, and not that you know. You're not going to go up to a 12 year old and be like you don't fucking get it because you don't know where he was.
Speaker 1:He was in in the dirt doing heroin Like you're not going to tell that to a little kid but like it, it the comeback, the Hollywood comeback, the American story, like the American dream is. It's right there. And now it's funny because he gets it for playing this like tech billionaire. But like, yeah, it's right there in the Tony star or in the Robert Downey jr Story as Tony Stark slash Iron man.
Speaker 3:He's so good and there's, and his performance throughout the movies is so good, and I just and you haven't seen all the MCU movies, have you? No, only a handful. It's all right, you know who's a true patriot on this podcast? Cut, sorry, deport. Who's a true patriot on this podcast? Cut, sorry, deport me now. Anyway, no, I'm obviously joking everybody. This is all just fun and games. But no, it's so good and it's like. You know. You're right. He proved it time and time again. It's incredible. It's incredible. I cried my eyes out in the end game.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean Like it's just so good. It's so good yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a great pick, I'd say a hundred percent deserving of a number one spot.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:I think you can't have this conversation without bringing it up so great call for me in a smaller, a little more contained universe, which is the Bret Easton Ellis universe. I have to give a shout out at my number one spot to Christian Bale as Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. Oh, that's a good one that is my number one pick.
Speaker 2:I strongly consider that.
Speaker 1:And I just feel like there's that specific brand of mid-20-year-old East Coast Wall Street. Yuppie for Christian Bale to be able to pull this off as an Australian first off is incredible.
Speaker 3:I forget that. What yeah?
Speaker 2:Wait, why did I not know that christian bale is australian?
Speaker 3:well he does. When he did the batman um begins press tour he did it all in an american accent. That is pretty sure most of it well he's he's wait, he's.
Speaker 1:Maybe he's british. Yeah, he's not. He's british, welsh, welsh born, that's. That's where he's from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's not, he's British, welsh, welsh born, that's where he's from. So an English accent, yeah, english accent.
Speaker 1:I don't know why, I thought he was Australian, okay. So, anyways, for him to be able to come in and portray this character that, honestly, that Brett Easton Ellis put to the page so well, like 10 or 15 years before the film was made. Well, like 10 or 15 years before the film was made. But then to just know that, like this movie I don't know if they knew, but the fact that this movie has lived on in pop culture, like I think about this all the time, like what are the movies that are coming out today that will still? Be like if letterboxd is still a thing, that will still be on like the top 20 most popular logged, yeah, films each week, like in a random week in you know, october makes a little bit more sense because it's kind of a thriller, horror film or whatever.
Speaker 1:But like in the middle of March you can go on Letterboxd and American Psycho is one of the top 20 most popular lead logged films still. And so I'm like what are those movies now? Like, maybe get out I think about. Like get out is probably one of those. And so I'm like what are those movies now? Like, maybe get out I think about? Like get out is probably one of those, and so you can tell you. Maybe, you know, in a little while we'll be having this conversation again. You can talk about Daniel Kaluuya's character in that film or something like that, you know kind of performances really in his hometown.
Speaker 1:Shout out, Daniel yeah you did.
Speaker 3:It's a cool statue. Let's go, but keep going.
Speaker 1:But so I just think that the way that American Psycho has not only continued to age extremely well, but the way that Christian Bale's career has gone since then, it's a little bit of that hangover effect too, where he's extremely accomplished, right Oscar winning actor in his own right. However, I'm always just like you are you will forever be Patrick Bateman to me because of what you gave to that performance. He's so vulnerable, he's so funny, he's so dark. Like you, truly believe that he has a lived experience on Wall Street in the 80s because of how good he is in that role. It's just, it's incredible. It's one of my all-time favorite movies. Got a the big old poster here staring me straight in the face right now in the studio one of the greatest movie posters of all time.
Speaker 1:It's a fantastic movie poster you know you always talk about too, also like brett easton ellis, very, I would say, divisive writer, mary Herron directs this film and I think that that brings a lot of nuance to it as well. The fact that he's directed by a woman in this picture where he is so misogynistic and also just like narcissistic, just all these toxic masculine traits Looking at himself in the mirror. You know, psychotic it really is. And I just the way you know he's done it time and time again where he manipulates his body. He puts on all the weight and muscle for Batman In this film, rescue Dawn, where he plays a POW. And then he also does it in the Machinist, very famously, famously, where he drops down to like 110 pounds or something.
Speaker 1:He's skin and bone and you can't believe it. The way that he. You know his whole morning routine monologue in this film where he's shirtless and just looks chiseled. He's putting on all the different, like face creams and the skin care routine and his hair and the way he talks. And I'm just like you. You've embodied this character to the point where I cannot picture another actor doing like. Are there other actors that could have looked like that? You know, cut their body down but nothing. But you know, like 2% body fat, sure, but could they have done the voice, could they have had that bravado kind of that swagger, but also then still haven't even talked about like be a complete psychopath.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and be able to care about him in a way.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I'm like I just don't think so. And so for me, in a different way, I think this is like. This is my version of a Robert Downey Jr at the top of the list, because it's my favorite kind of genre. It's just like one of my favorite stories ever told, this sort of expanded Bret Easton Ellis universe, and I think that Less Than Zero which, coincidentally enough, is kind of one of the films that Robert Downey Jr that led his life astray for a long time when he plays this character, julie in A Drug Addict. But that universe is sort of anchored by Lesson Zero and American Psycho, and American Psycho just has this incredible performance in the middle of it. You got what you wanted, film bros, you got what you wanted.
Speaker 3:You got what you wanted. Film bros, the best of both worlds, I think. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, he's.
Speaker 1:His hair is perfect in the movie too Down to the hair, his clothes, the business card scene, like there's so many funny things dude, that scene's iconic, that scene's iconic and yeah, I watched.
Speaker 2:When I watched this I was blown away. Him and his dull acts with like I love scene of him. What right before he's about to kill jared leto, it's like so it's been going viral online recently like, just like just watching him dance to hip to be square and he like in his little, like jared leto clear raincoat. Yeah, he's like why is there a newspaper all around?
Speaker 1:copies of the fashion section on the floor. Do you have a little dog or something?
Speaker 2:no, no, alan, he's just crazy and it's like it's so funny. But you're just like you're in, you're a, you're a psychopath and um, but yeah, that that axe. They zoom in on the axe and you can see it's so dull, it's like it's crazy looking. That's funny a.
Speaker 3:A lot of Halloween costumes on all of our lists too. I think that's a big qualifier If you were a Halloween costume that was probably.
Speaker 1:Chances are it's a transcendent performance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, great casting A lot of Regina George, a lot of Patrick Bateman's at Halloween, gene Wilder, a lot of Willy Wonka's, a lot of Snape's yeah very true, not a lot of snakes, you know.
Speaker 1:yeah, very true, yeah commissioner gordon's not a lot of alfreds at halloween, um, but yeah, though cool, you guys got some good solid picks.
Speaker 2:Thank you, erica. What's your last one? That was my last. Oh, hannibal was your last one.
Speaker 3:Okay, so any honorable mention you did you said you were kind of going out of order. Yeah, I was. I was just about to say or you didn't have an order.
Speaker 2:I would like to just clarify that no hate to my pick of Hannibal Lecter. I wouldn't know that that's my first one, because I think I got so excited to talk about Christoph Waltz that that would probably, if I had to pick, and my number one pick would definitely be um, can't go wrong with that hans landa.
Speaker 1:So yeah, anyway, christoph waltz, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, one honorable mention that I want to give a shout out to. I just don't really think that this, this character, doesn't quite have the notoriety in in pop culture and this would be like a real film bro pick here. But I think about kind of this mumblecore subgenre of real talky performances by you know 20-something-year-olds, and these are always coastal stories that either take place in California or New York and it's a very like white privileged lens the way you look at these stories and stuff, and so they're not always like the most accessible films. However, I do think that greta gerwig as francis ha and in the noah bombach film francis ha is is the best version of a thing that I know is not everybody's cup of tea, but I just got to give greta a shout out, um in that film, because you watch francis haw and for all the things that it isn't, it's so great at what it's trying to be that's on my watch list.
Speaker 2:I've never seen it, but it's it's not.
Speaker 1:I need to watch that it's like if people tell me you know I watched francis on, I found it insufferable. I'd be like, yeah, that's fair, take zero offense. But there's other people who you know they could watch and be like wow, yeah, that's fair, Take zero offense. But there's other people who you know they could watch and be like wow. As a 27 year old who's lived in three different apartments over the last two years and I'm not sure you know what I'm doing with my career and who my friends are and all these other things- Like it spoke to me on such a deep level and I'd be like, yeah, it's because it's a fucking great movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, listen.
Speaker 3:Bella Swan Twilight.
Speaker 1:Listen, if you're telling me that nobody else aside from Kristen Stewart could play that role.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to disagree with you, I mean pretty perfect, Like I watched the first one as like a joke, you know, with my lady, and then I'm like let's do the next one?
Speaker 1:are we watching the second one? What are we doing thursday?
Speaker 3:yeah, I'm like whoa, you don't work, you don't work tonight. Okay, how about we? Oh, these two, a part one and two parts, we gotta watch them back to back. It's a part one and a part two.
Speaker 2:She's perfect, she's perfect, you know you really can't imagine anyone else playing bella swan. Um, like after you've seen all the twilight movies and like the history you have. She's perfect, you know, you really can't imagine anyone else playing Bella Swan, like after you've seen all the Twilight movies and like the history you have, like our generation, specifically with that franchise. Yeah, I mean, it's just one of those characters. It's like she's. She is Bella Swan at this point and unfortunately, I think to even Kristen Stewart's detriment. I think she's like finally getting out of that. Yes, she's proved in the last few years that she can actually be a really good actress.
Speaker 1:I think her and Bobby Pats both had that same struggle. And then you see somebody like Taylor Lautner and now how much he really wanted the limelight and to become a star is a question for another podcast, but like he couldn't do it and kind of just like stopped acting, I think I see him on tiktok a lot and you know, I feel like the comment section is just flooded with like jacob twilight yeah, like content where the hell you been
Speaker 3:it's like loca yeah, he can't escape that, I mean he should have delivered the line like that where the hell you been, yeah loca. No, you shouldn't have.
Speaker 3:No, you're right, yeah you can't escape it, yeah but I mean, and he, he actually could have got out of it there's in the second one he was they're gonna recast and get a bigger guy because he's supposed to be a lot more built in the second one and on, and he, like you know, lost the job and then like went off and got built and they didn't have a guy cast and then like got know, lost the job and then like went off and got built and they didn't have a guy cast and then like got back into the movie, basically got back into the series, and it's like dang, he you could have probably, like you know, what happens to your career if you do go off. You know, yeah, and not take some other jobs.
Speaker 3:He's kind of a cornball, though, but you know he's great cornball. He seems like a really nice guy. Yeah, yeah, but um no, that's my honorable watch, I think I mean I would. I would talk about ray, leota and goodfellas, but I think that would be more talking about just a great performance more than great casting. Sure, yeah, yeah, still great casting, but I could talk about it all day long yeah this was fun.
Speaker 1:Any other honorable mentions?
Speaker 2:I don't think so.
Speaker 1:I wanted to ask you about one here how do you feel about Natalie Portman and black Swan?
Speaker 2:I think that's. That's a really good one actually, but I don't. I kind of think that falls into the category of like what we're talking about, like with Kramer versus Kramer and like somebody really well like could have also done that. That might be like I don't even know that's controversial. Saying that I don't like cause.
Speaker 1:Again, it's one of those where I'm like a 92 and I'm like am I being persuaded by the best Oscar, the best actress Oscar, that you won for the performance, or could you know Keira Knightley have done the role as well? Could a handful of other actors have done the role just as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that, like you know, I think what we all three have done throughout this podcast was, like we've all mentioned, like I couldn't see them in any other way. I couldn't see anyone else playing that character. We've all said that through with all of our lists. I couldn't see anyone else playing that character. We've all said that through with all of our lists. Now, I think Natalie Portman is or like in Black Swan is one of those instances where it's like it doesn't. I don't look at her in other roles and see like oh, I just see, I can't even remember her name.
Speaker 1:Like Nina, nina, that's right, nina.
Speaker 3:Do you get that reference?
Speaker 2:I can't even, okay, I can't see, um, I can't see anyone else, or like I can't. Oh my gosh, I don't see nina in other roles that natalie portman has been yeah but I think that that is like really good example, because she is unbelievable in Black Swan and so I don't know, maybe it could go both ways on that. That's a good one.
Speaker 1:It's another one to think about. Really. Another really cool thing about this entire conversation is that pretty soon there will actually be some data on this stuff, Because casting director is going to be an upcoming award added to the Oscars.
Speaker 2:Really yes. Best casting director so good, really good.
Speaker 1:Because you know, we've seen this at the Golden Globes and other awards bodies do too where they award a best ensemble cast, and I feel like awarding a best ensemble cast was almost a backhanded way to give someone like a casting director their 15 minutes of fame. This is now going to be a legitimate Oscar, Will you be?
Speaker 3:given. Will it be this person? Is this casting director is up for best casting director, for casting blank in this movie?
Speaker 1:I think it will be like an ensemble thing, right and so like like last year, for like oppenheimer say, like someone was like okay they're gonna get an award for like best cast because killian was perfect, robert downey jr was perfect, gary oldman and his little five minute role was perfect.
Speaker 3:I almost would like it better if it was just like you submit who you casted for the movie.
Speaker 1:So it would be like I was the person that was like Christian Bale should be Patrick Bateman.
Speaker 3:Exactly For casting blah blah blah, but then I guess you can just link that to whoever wins best actor should also win.
Speaker 1:That's a good point too. It will be so interesting to see how they end up being tied together right to. It will be so interesting to see how they end up being tied together right, because another thing too will be like they'll be. I think there will be certain times where someone gets nominated on the strength of one in particular performance. Yeah, oh, I see you're saying. Then there'll be other times where, like maybe if it's not a, if it doesn't get nominated for the first three, four or five times, like if you're talking about in a franchise like lord of the rings, return of the king, how it just kind of swept in its final year there it probably also would have won casting, because you could just say that, like ian mckellen was perfect, christopher lee was perfect, viggo Mortensen down the list, you know, everybody's perfect. You could probably say it about one of the Avengers films, where it's just like you know what we're finally going to give you your credit, not only for the RDJ thing.
Speaker 3:Civil war is like perfect casting for you know everyone else. Yeah, yeah. Well, then it kind of gets like with best director and best picture. It's like shouldn't whoever won best director automatically win best picture? You know what I mean? Or shouldn't that movie win both those award anyway? But, um, can I? This is my first time on a movie podcast can I say one while we're talking about oscars just one last movie story.
Speaker 3:So I I would hate myself if I didn't say this story. My godmother had an Oscars party every year. We would go, my family and all these other families would go. Sounds like a great lady. It was awesome. Great snacks that's probably the first place I ever had puppy chow. That's probably the first place I ever had the little cocktail wieners and the sauce yeah, I'm being serious and I'm just like oh my god those are life-changing moments.
Speaker 2:Oh my god I was trying to think of the name. Yeah, and like I'm an italian meatball guy because my italian.
Speaker 3:That's probably the first place I've read swedish meatballs before and I was like, wait, what's this kind of meatball anyway? So, um, I love the oscars, I love the oscars, so we would, you know, get the brackets. And you know you circle. What do you think should win? Blah, blah. And it was the year that crash was nominated for best picture still have never seen it, and I really should watch the movie.
Speaker 3:But I'm like a kid and I'm circling my pics and nobody picked crash to win Best Picture. And my mom's like, okay, what do you want to pick for Best Picture? And I'm like Crash. And I just circled it Cool word, yeah, cool word, explosion. And so I like you know, I'm the only one, I'm this kid that picked Crash to win Best Picture. And I'm like, let's go Like I knew it. All these adults are like this kid didn't see crash. And then, uh, the guy who like got the most right, like won the best prize or whatever, was like, hey, like I, you know I won, but you know, I think it's pretty cool that you're the only one that picked crash. So he like gave me the candy that he won or whatever. So that's a my um that's my oscar's memory story.
Speaker 1:I love it that might be the best oscar party story related to the film crash. Thank you, not a good movie really it won best picture not a good movie I have to talk about this, alex, because I loved that movie really.
Speaker 2:What's it about? Yeah, it crash. We could go down a hole, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's one of these whole stories about how there's five different life experiences happening simultaneously right next to each other and, oh my gosh, look at how they all collide and come together.
Speaker 3:Vanish. Point Magnolia there's so many different movies. Remember that movie, vanish Point? Yeah, it's like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so many different movies that have done this storytelling type of device before and I don't know why this one hit paul haggis.
Speaker 3:Uh, that's like one of the. That's a big upset that that one it was.
Speaker 1:It had a lot of strength behind it. Some of the people who were involved, um, yeah, I don't know, not the best. Hey, it was also a really weak oscar year, though I don't know if you can remember off the top of your head what else were on those ballots, but, like looking back at it, there's probably some stuff that wasn't even nominated, that should have been nominated in its place, but I know out of the movies that it was going up against. It's not like. It's not like one of these years. I was just talking to somebody about the king's speech and how I was like god, I fucking hate the king's speech and really it's not that bad of a movie and I'm like to be fair. It's not that bad of a movie but it won best picture and best director over the social network, yeah, so like you automatically just kind of start to hate a movie because it took away Oscars from David Fincher and like one of the best movies ever, that movie is really good, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, you need to watch it. Yeah, you need to watch. It's what's.
Speaker 2:Inside, I'm fired. It's what's Inside. It's what's.
Speaker 3:Inside it's so good. That's why I'm firing up. You know, when we turned it on, we were like. I was like, oh, how refreshing that this doesn't have like Netflix acting and Netflix cameras. Like I get so sick of Netflix acting and Netflix cameras.
Speaker 2:Netflix cameras is such a good way to explain a lot of Netflix originals.
Speaker 3:The look of them, yes.
Speaker 2:It's like super. I don't know anything about this? But it feels very like 4K, but like, not like it, just I don't even know how to explain it.
Speaker 3:It just doesn't feel good. Apple TV has their own and there's not enough Apple TV originals now where I'm sick of the Apple TV cameras, but there's so many Netflix originals where I'm kind of sick of the Netflix cameras and the Netflix acting.
Speaker 2:It translates into their shows, their movies, I mean.
Speaker 3:It's a really good movie dude.
Speaker 1:This is why that's why Max and I loved Rebel Ridge so much, because even though that's distributed by Netflix, it's a movie that does not look like one of these ultra glossy Netflix productions. So Rebel Ridge another good one. I'll watch what's Inside. You guys go watch Rebel Ridge.
Speaker 2:I know I still gotta watch that.
Speaker 3:I didn't finish it, oh, you started it, though, but I love the casting as that guy's John Stewart, as Green Lan, as that guy as John, uh, john Stewart and as green lantern oh yeah, that guy cast as green lantern.
Speaker 1:Aaron Pierre did. Yeah, that was really cool casting, oh my.
Speaker 3:God, it's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, we'll shoot, sal, you've been a rock star here today, thank you.
Speaker 3:Um hey, am I allowed to plug? Plug?
Speaker 1:plug away. I was just about to throw it to you.
Speaker 3:Oh, maybe that's better if I would have let you naturally do it?
Speaker 1:No, this is why it's so fun to have other people who are, you know, quote unquote kind of like entertainers who are comfortable with the speaking and everything else. So yeah, plug away.
Speaker 3:I do long form improv shows in Tacoma, washington and Portland and Minnesota, where I'm from, and Seattle sometimes Come out to a show. I think our next show is November 7th at Edison Square. This episode will definitely be out by then, pretty sure, right, this episode will be out in like five days.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm pretty sure our next show is November 7th at Edison Square. If you live near Tacoma, we do hour-long made-up-on-the-spot one-act plays. It's me and a couple other guys that do this. It's very fun and I also teach improv classes. So follow Boy Smooch's Improv for the shows on Instagram and then follow GBYR Improv on Instagram for the classes. Go before you're ready. Go before you're ready. Go before you're ready. Improv If you're interested in improv. Anybody into Kamo Washington if you're interested. We are in the middle of our classes right now. Our fall session. We take a little break and then we got classes again after the Christmas and New Year's kind of holidays are all over.
Speaker 1:We need to get like I love, go before you're ready. It's kind of a mantra. We need to get that in like the shiplap live, laugh, love font and hang it here and hang it here in the studio, because that's what we always tell guests when they come on. We're like I don't know, I'm kind of nervous, and it's like you know what go before you're ready just go, before you're ready, just talk I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you go for it, hell yeah. And I say too strong endorsement for the Boy Smooches shows. And I tell you this I feel like after every single show but I laugh harder than those are. The best laughs that I have nowadays is at those shows when I'm crying, laughing.
Speaker 2:You're going to catch me at those shows now, because I felt like we didn't get to. This is our first time meeting tonight but before we started recording we didn't really touch on like what we do. And when you mentioned, when Alex was doing introductions, that you're part of Boy Smooches, I feel like I'm part of, I'm like in the midst of a celebrity, because I see your stuff all over Instagram.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you. World famous Tacoma famous World tour celebrity, because I see your stuff all over instagram. Oh, thank you, world famous world tour.
Speaker 2:Well, I see you know alex and max and stuff post about you guys, so you'll see me at that show. Yeah, I love improv shout out.
Speaker 3:I thank you so much. I appreciate. Come bring your friends shout out to max for making that uh featurette on us, a little documentary. Max Max, I love you, we miss you and really if you didn't put the Star Spangled Banner underneath my Robert Downey Jr speech then you're dead to me 86th from Edison 86th from Edison Square. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Oh my gosh, this has been great guys. Well, thank you so much, Erica. Thank you, as always, too, for joining us Next week on Excuse the Intermission. You're definitely going to be back, Erica, because it's our Halloween extravaganza. So all these fun genre movies that have been coming out, we're going to get a chance to talk about them some of our favorite horror films from 2024. So that's going to be a ton of fun, as we are in the throes of spooky season right now. So that'll be really cool, Sal. Once again, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Until next time, please follow Excuse the Intermission on Instagram and myself, Max and Erica on Letterboxd. We're going to turn you into a film, bro. Get you on Letterboxd too, Sal, because you watch stuff all the time. You got to start logging. Got to start logging what you way. You can track what we're watching between shows, and we will talk to you next time on eti, where movies still matter.
