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Alex and Max take you on a journey through film with this discussion podcast about movies.
Excuse the Intermission
Mickey 17: Bong Joon-ho's Comedic Sci-Fi Odyssey
Mickey 17 marks Bong Joon-ho's triumphant return to filmmaking following his historic Oscar sweep with Parasite. The film stars Robert Pattinson as an "expendable" – a human clone repeatedly sent on dangerous missions with his consciousness transferred to a new body after each death. When two versions of Mickey unexpectedly exist simultaneously, the story transforms into something far more complex than its sci-fi premise suggests.
What surprised me most about Mickey 17 was its comedic tone. Rather than the tense thriller the early teasers suggested, Bong delivers a surprisingly daffy, slapstick comedy reminiscent of silent film greats. Pattinson commits fully to this goofier register, creating a character both vulnerable and resilient. Mark Ruffalo shines as a fictitious failed politician leading the colony, channeling elements of current political figures with remarkable precision despite denying any intentional parallels.
The film continues Bong's exploration of class struggle, environmental concerns, and corporate critique – themes present throughout his filmography. However, Mickey 17's narrative structure relies heavily on narration and flashbacks, departing from the linear storytelling that made his previous works so effective. This structural change, combined with ambitious world-building, creates a film that feels occasionally unfocused compared to the tight construction of Parasite or Memories of Murder.
Watching Mickey 17 prompted a complete reexamination of Bong's career, from his debut Barking Dogs Never Bite to his Oscar-winning Parasite. What emerges is a portrait of a filmmaker whose remarkable consistency places him among cinema's contemporary masters. Even when experimenting with new genres or techniques, Bong maintains a distinct voice that seamlessly blends social commentary with genre entertainment. While Mickey 17 may not reach the heights of his greatest achievements, it demonstrates his continued willingness to take creative risks while delivering thought-provoking cinema that challenges and entertains in equal measure.
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How's it? I'm Alex McCauley and I'm Max Fosberg, and this is, excuse the Intermission, a discussion show surrounding Bong Joon-ho, the South Korean filmmaker's latest film, mickey 17, is the number one movie of the global box office and giving us the perfect opportunity to discuss the Oscar-winning director's career, a celebratory ranking of all of his feature films on the other side of this break. All right Max, a two-hander today. Erica is a little under the weather this week, so it's you and I on the case. How are you doing? Spring kind of feels like it has sprung here in the Pacific Northwest. We've had a weird week of saving the daylight and now we're looking forward to a blood moon lunar eclipse. I don't know what's going on out there. The kiddos at work, my students have been buck wild this week, so I'm feeling the energy out there. How are you? Tell us something good?
Speaker 2:this week. So I'm feeling the energy. Um, out there, how are you tell us something good? Uh, yeah, I uh. I graduate film school on saturday very exciting week. I had my last official class yesterday. Um, I've got family in town to come to the ceremony. Um, we're gonna be. I will definitely probably see you sat evening Cause we're going to be at my sister's Airbnb, which is like right around the corner from you.
Speaker 1:So, uh, yeah, we're gonna uh it's it's really exciting.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's very exciting. I um, I also, uh, was selected, uh, to win the Robert Shulman Award at school for academic excellence. Hey, now, so I get to get up there during the ceremony and address my cohort and give a little speech.
Speaker 1:Explain this lineage that you're following in. Who is this, robert fellow? What does?
Speaker 2:this mean to you what's the dry run?
Speaker 1:of this speech.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know, I'm just going to tell the cohort, you know I'm going to celebrate that we've done it and that you know we get to go out there and make movies and we get to go make movies. That matter.
Speaker 1:Like a true leader, a real director right here. Ladies and gentlemen, Deflect, deflect, deflect.
Speaker 2:It's all you guys, absolutely, absolutely. But yeah, it's, it's uh, it's very exciting, it's gonna be very cool. I, um, you know, I, I, I really put uh a lot of work into school and uh for the past two years, so it feels good to be recognized on this. Listen, these are the moments that.
Speaker 1:Take note, people, because when good things happen to you in life, when you are being recognized, celebrated, I think that we've gotten to a point in society where it is almost too PC. It is it is the right thing to do to always shift the attention off of yourself. Because the moment that you start to maybe say I do deserve this or I did work hard and I'm you can still say it humbly, but you know like any sort of it goes back to this, like Timothee Chalamet speech kind of thing I want to be one of the greatest.
Speaker 1:You want to be one of the greats. Right're working towards this, and so I think people respond to that honesty, and so stay true to yourself. You know, of course, I've been on set with you a lot over the last couple of years as you've been going through this. You have had a great team. You could not have done it alone, especially when this academic excellence is is reflective or reflected in a lot of group projects, right, but but at the same time, you were selected for a reason, so be proud of it. It's a huge accomplishment, congratulations. Thank you so much. Yeah, very exciting.
Speaker 1:Maybe one day you will be considered among among the great, like our bong joon-ho for today's episode, absolutely that would be amazing so let's talk mickey 17, and then we can also kind of circle back to where this film ends up ranking in our overall bong joon-ho list. Um, that we're going to comprise here in a little bit. Mickey 17, the the long awaited 8th feature film From director Bong, and one that I will admit that I was becoming more hesitant of by the day, and that really Came to fruition, my hesitancy when I started to see the final trailers For this film film. Because, knowing how many production delays there were, and then just release date, release dates getting bumped and then seeing what the trailer looked like, I was hesitant going into this film. What kind of energy were you bringing into Mickey 17?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, I think I I had picked it gosh I almost two years ago as like a most anticipated film for 2024.
Speaker 1:Sounds about right. It got pushed you know which means you would have been. We would have been recording that in 2023.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah. So you know, I w I was very excited. Parasite was kind of like. You know, back in 2019, parasite was like the first realization of who Bond is and his filmography. I remember not being, I remember not being able to finish. Okja, the film that came out, I believe did that come out before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like two years before Parasite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, two years before, you know, snowpiercer I, I don't think I had realized that was his film until parasite, um so, but but after parasite, I mean, I was just like, yeah, give this guy a blank check, I'm, I'm in for whatever. And then to hear that, and and then, and then to get the announcement that it's a sci film starring Robert Pattinson, you know, it just kind of grew my hype and then for it to get pushed back so many times, I was, I was hesitant too, and it's so funny because the teaser trailer, the first thing that came out, was like Mickey being like printed and like there was no dialogue or anything. It was just that scene. And then it was very serious. And then everything after that has been very like daffy and goofy. And so, yeah, going in, I was like you know, this could be really really weird and crazy. Luckily we've got Robert Patz at the middle of it and like I always enjoy his weirdness on screen. But I don't know. I mean, yeah, you had a lot of hesitancy as well. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I do think we should note, um, that we are recording this remotely today. So shout out to whoever that was in the background there uh, over on your, over on your end, one of your furry friends, um. So yeah, I mean, I was for the the parasite moment feels so long ago now, at this point, it is very rare and I know that this wasn't the intention of mickey 17. This movie was intended to come out at the end of potentially 2023 and then certainly in 2024, so that that I feel like would have felt a little closer to the Parasite moment.
Speaker 1:It's just, it's very rare to see a filmmaker experience the kind of success that Bong did on an international, prestigious level with something like Parasite, and then go roughly six years without a film being released. And now, of course, it would have been four, four and a half years had the production delays and things like that not happen. And so not that like bong fell out of favor with me or anything like that, but I think it did just add another level of expectation to this film, mickey 17, fairly or unfairly, because I'm sitting here thinking like, wow, we waited six years. This better be good, really better be good, and this really better be saying something.
Speaker 2:Um well, it's hard too, because bong, you know he's. He's on a different level, right like he is.
Speaker 1:His stuff is held at such a high standard oh, we'll get to his filmography later and it's like the lowest ranked film is probably a seven out of ten, you know, yeah right, and so it's, it's, it's, it's unfair, but at the same time, like you know, he's, he's, he's one of our greats absolutely um.
Speaker 1:so quick synopsis of the film. If you haven't gotten out to see it yet or don't know too much about it, we'll have this discussion in a relatively spoiler free way. But Robert Pattinson, he does play a human. That was something that I couldn't really gauge from the trailers or not, but he does play a human that has had a rough patch fallen in with the bad crowd.
Speaker 1:Shout out Steven Yen, who's really good in this movie and takes an opportunity to go off colony, leave earth and um, become what is called what do they call them? A expendable, an expendable um for this, the space exploration program, and so essentially, his body is printed and then his opportunity for a normal life is is then lost, because what is going to happen now to mickey is that every single time a scientific exploration needs to happen on the surface of a new planet or something extremely dangerous needs to be, um, uh, conducted on the spaceship, but something that needs to be repaired outside, mickey's going to go out there because he is expendable versus someone else. You know like you think of all the other kind of like, whether they're garbage space or prestigious space films that we've seen over the past 10, 20, 30 years, and there's always like a crew of people and you kind of it's funny because there is a kind of a meta commentary on like, okay, there isn't going to be the trope of having some characters on this ship that are going to be the ones where you're like, oh well, they're going to die doing something else, they're going to da da, da, da, da. Like that is kind of the tongue in cheek joke of the movie is that any single time there's going to be danger, it's going to be Mickey going through it. And so we meet Mickey, and then we meet all the other Mickeys up until Mickey 17. And then do they call them duplicates? I'm pretty sure they call them duplicates in the film.
Speaker 1:A situation occurs where then Mickey 18 is introduced and you have two Robert Pattinson's occupying the screen at the same time. Hijinks continue to ensue, and that is when the movie really starts to pick up steam, in my opinion. And so not exactly what I expected going in. I didn't know that that was going to be the narrative structure of the film. Um, what did what did you think, as you were experiencing the film for the first time? Was it what you expected based off of preconceived um notions from the trailer, maybe things that you had read or listened to no, uh, not what I expected.
Speaker 2:Way, way more, way more comedy, right like physical, like buster keaton, charlie Chaplin.
Speaker 1:Slapstick yeah.
Speaker 2:Slapstick comedy going on. You've got Mark Ruffalo in here as a fictitious like failed politician who's leading this colony to this new planet. You could draw some very easy through lines to here in our society right now totally he's come out and said he wasn't doing that, but like, yes, I I think he's. He's definitely channeling that, even down to like doing the dance move at one point yeah it.
Speaker 1:I mean it's a hybrid really between our current president and elon musk yeah, totally, and then really some of his character from poor things like you know mark ruffalo. He's having a great time right now great things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, you know tony collat is in this. Uh, who's up? She is mark ruffalo's wife and is obsessed with sauces, which is a really like odd and funny, like just seasoning to her character and also like his handler, like he.
Speaker 1:He has this bravado about him where people are obsessing over him to the point where, on this colony ship um, once a week or once a month, someone is selected to have dinner with the mark ruffalo character. But he couldn't put one foot in front of the other if it wasn't for Tony Collette. So they're idolizing again. I think, a great smart commentary of Bong by saying, like you know, these politicians, these entrepreneurs, these billionaires that people idolize nowadays are so fragile and people who are like sometimes not all that well put together.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, so so yeah, just a lot more, a lot more laughs than I expected. You know, when you go into a sci-fi movie, you think it's going to be. You know, you think alien, you think, uh, you know truckers in space that are fighting against an alien, Right.
Speaker 1:Well, even based off of bongs previous films from his work, you're you're thinking is this going to be a mix of, like a snow piercer and a host in the host, or something?
Speaker 2:Right, and then it's much more of a snow piercer in like Okja.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Combined together Right Like Okja, has rewatching Okja this week, which I was totally wrong when that first came out. That movie is wildly, wildly good but also very like big, like farcical cartoon characters, and Banjo-Junho just seems to do this with his American films. I feel like this Snowpiercer and Okja all kind of talk to each other as far as daffy, weird political figures or leaders of corporations doing almost like an anime style, like cartoon acting style. Yeah, there's always going to be something about like animals and protecting animals in it, which I found really interesting in this and Okja. And then there's always like this you know it's also, but then there's always like this you know it's also, but then it's also like this weird class system where it's it's it's dirty, like the setting is very dirty and dark and dingy, very much like alien and repressed too right Like these people are told you can't have sex.
Speaker 1:You can't do this. Your, your foods are rationed down and that's your penalty for misbehaving is a reduced ration at mealtime.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so in the moment, you know, I, I I tried to go in with with as an open as a heart heart as I could and, like you know, when I again, when I go into a sci fi movie, I want like hard sci fi. This definitely is. I wouldn't say it's hard sci fi, but like it's, it's just a lot lighter than I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it looks like a sci fi movie.
Speaker 2:It doesn't sound like a sci fi movie, right, right so, but I mean overall, you know, even in the moment I was having a great time, I was laughing, I was going along with it. Uh, you know, I I think kind of all of his movies are might be a tinge too long, but also I think that's because the stupid movie theater I went to had like 35 minutes of commercials before sure?
Speaker 1:so I'll send you there for three hours it's.
Speaker 2:It's unbelievable, it's just unbelievable. And also like to start trailers and then have a coke commercial in the middle of that. It's just like come on, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1:I would. I would love for the start time for a movie to actually be the showtime listed, yeah, and if you want to see the trailers show up like 20 minutes before, that totally would just help a lot of things, a lot of things, scheduling wise. Anyways, I it hurts me to say this next part For me, the thing that didn't work in this film was Robert Pattinson. Oh really, I, I, I agree with you where I appreciate his quirkiness, I, I love the fact that he is obviously one of these actors that has, aside from the Batman and we've only seen him put on the cape and cow once but he is, for the most part, stayed out of franchises, stayed out of big intellectual properties, and has worked with the top of the of the crop, with when it comes to like, exciting international auteur directors who are making movies that are doing something that are taking big swings. And this movie certainly does take swings. I don't.
Speaker 1:To me, they didn't necessarily feel all that big or original, and I don't know if that's because I've, just because this, this movie has elements of groundhog's day. It has a lot of different things, even some of like what we saw, and poor things, if I'm being honest, and so I I think that there's it's a bit messy, especially that first hour. I think, um, when there is so much narration. The narration, I think, is really what helps me feel like, okay, no, I'm not seeing this wrong, or something like that. Like there's so much exposition from the mickey character and robert pattinson's doing this, um, kind of like very, very, yeah, but but in it he's doing, he has this very gullible tone in his voice and he does have this little accent that he's doing. I found it all kind of annoying, um, and and the performance to be just something that I didn't expect from robert pattinson. It's so goofy. It is just really really goofy and I so it leaves me questioning if he was the right person for the role.
Speaker 2:I don't know what do you, I, I I think I appreciate his goofiness and his and and the fact that he's doing something.
Speaker 2:It's a different pitch that I've never seen him do right yeah, um, you know, I think it would have been easy to play it straight and be kind of like the Curtis Everett in this film. I don't know Something about Pattinson he is never going to do. I feel like what you expect right, like, even in his serious roles, even as the batman right like his batman is is very weird, is bruce wayne is very weird and awkward and like off-putting um, so I, I don't know, I I appreciate it, I was able to go on the ride.
Speaker 2:and then also he does, like you know, know, he does the dual thing right when, where, like we, we have 18 right now.
Speaker 1:My screen name on this zoom call is Alex 18 18.
Speaker 2:I love it Right.
Speaker 1:It is probably the character, the type of character you would more expect to be the main protagonist in this film, more of like an anti-hero Maybe that you've seen you know Robert play before and that we've seen in other Bong Joon-ho films, where it's like there's really no good guys here in this story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like, when he like in the dinner scene, when he falls I mean that's Robert Pattinson falling, he's using a stunt guy Right, and so I just I don't know. I appreciate that, that, like he's doing that and he's like okay with taking risks. You know him like Tom Hardy, like all these crazy voices they do, like that's why I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in on those guys, because someone else who's played doubles before too right exactly, and uh, yeah, I'm just okay.
Speaker 2:I'm okay with with them trying to be weird. Yeah, because, because, why not? I'd rather see 10 Mickey 17s before I see the next Marvel film, of course, right, you put anyone else in this part and again, it's probably a pretty, by the numbers, tough guy or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think for me it was just kind of a melting pot of not loving the patents and performance, really disliking the narration, and then we've just never seen bong tell a story this way before, with so many flashbacks, using the narrator for exposition on that, jumping back and forth. We've always. What we've always seen is just a linear timeline and he's because he is so good at that um, and maybe it's just me being greedy and and wanting like just more of that um and and not seeing him do something that I feel like is less successful. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean I think we're both on the record of of believing that narration is it's never a good sign and I feel. Very rarely does it work 100 I, I would guess that some of that narration was, was probably, you know, put in there because of reshoots or maybe some stuff studio translation right, we're, yeah, we're adapting this from a book, an american book, and so, yeah, I don't know I I I do agree that I think the narration was a little bit too much and the whole, like we're gonna start the film and then go backwards and and then get to that place again and go forward from there and then then the title.
Speaker 1:I wrote it down.
Speaker 2:The title coming in 40 minutes 33 minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that that that's like a weird fad. I feel like that's going on in films, in feature films, and and rarely does it ever work. You know, I think fresh, really kind of uh made a couple years ago made people like want to do that all the time, um, but but yeah, I don't know. Uh, I I also found it like a little repetitive, right, like I was saying, it's, it's kind of a algorithmic movie of snowpiercer and oakja and it's just like bond you've. You've kind of touched on both of these in their own separate movies, which are great movies. Why, why are we now putting those, those themes together?
Speaker 1:yeah, or, you know, in this mishmash of a film, it would be like if he made another movie about like another murder mystery that also has to do with, like classism or something, and it would be like, again, we love seeing you do this. Like people I, you know, always name dropping athletes. But like people came out to watch Nolan Ryan throws fastball for 20 years and and so part of me is like, just keep doing that. But then again it's like if, if, that's what mickey 17 would have been, if it would have been some science fiction murder mystery that has to do with classism, like I don't know if I would have been happier or less happy than I am right now yeah, there's just a lot of.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of story in this film and, uh, and you do feel it from time to time, time to time and some some of the world building too, like I love the mark ruffalo character but all the different, um, all of the world building, that that we all that we kind of have to learn for to buy in to this movie really it. It took me a while to be like I'm actually invested in, I actually care. For a while there I was sort of just like I don't, I don't really care about this world, that I'm in.
Speaker 2:I much rather would have like just stayed on the ship like I. This stuff I didn't care about. I did not care about the planet, the snow planet, and the animals yeah, these like giant grub worm things again.
Speaker 1:There's always going to be cool creature design and telepathic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that are also bugs, I don't know um and then. And then you know, at the end it does get like very c CGI heavy and feels very kind of over the top. You know, I was just watching snow piercer and like that movie is just so brilliant because it's like it's contained you never leave that train until the last like 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:Right, totally, and, and you know, and even that has, like you, you know you face off against the, the polar bear or whatever, and like I don't know that, I don't know. Uh, mickey 17 also, it was also very. I think a lot of his films end very like darkly, uh, and this one way more hopeful, way more, way more of a happy ending. You know, um, then it kind of kind of like oakja right, like um, yeah, so yeah, I don't know it was, it was a mixed bag, I, I thought it was good. Again I've seen, I think I now I've seen three 2025 releases. Now I've seen three 2025 releases. I am so behind on my movie watching. I think it's probably the best thing I've seen this year.
Speaker 1:It's certainly the biggest release of the year so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's kind of middle of the pack if we're talking his filmography.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we can get into that, because I mean I even have it a little bit lower. But what we're going to attempt to do now is fit Mickey 17 into his seven other films, to come up with an eight list or an eight film list here of Bong Joon-ho's best film. So, max, what do you have at your eight spot?
Speaker 2:At eight.
Speaker 1:I have barking dogs bite which is also what I have. Um, this is bong's first film, his first directed feature-length film. Um, in this movie it's there's the simplicity I think that you love to see from a first time feature film maker, not out kicking their coverage, sticking to one simple idea, which, in this film, is that life just is not fair. It follows two characters who go through the movie, each of them making their own separate decisions. One character making terrible decisions and not having to suffer the consequence consequences for them. And then the other character, park, the strongest character in this film. She is the one trying to do the right thing and repeatedly is just getting the short end of the stick when it comes to, like catching the brakes in life.
Speaker 1:And of course, bong, especially in his international features in in the movies that he makes in South Korea with South Korean actors, he is very cynical, um, in exploring these, these ideas and these themes of life.
Speaker 1:And and so it's, it's a really good film and terms of exploring one idea and doing it well and being cynical yet still having hope, because the part character she is really strong in the way that she is able to lift up others around her despite how she could just be completely shut down the way that life just keeps giving her a bad hand, be like, completely shut down the way that life just keeps giving her a bad hand. And so, um, a fine film it. I think that you and I have both sort of come around to this notion of ranking a director's first film um a little bit higher than than maybe something else in the filmography that comes a little bit later. That maybe does feel derivative, something like they've done before. However, in this case, with the rest of Bong's CV being as strong as it is, I think eight is the right spot for barking dogs Never bite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do you have in the seven position?
Speaker 1:Seven is where I have Mickey 17.
Speaker 2:So I was thinking you were definitely going to have this here. So just to be transparent, I haven't seen Mother Mm-hmm and I guess if Mickey 17 wasn't here, what's your six?
Speaker 1:Six says Mother, okay.
Speaker 2:So I'm okay with putting Mickey 17 here. With putting mickey 17 here again, I I think it's in in relative, relatively like compared to other movies that I've seen this year. I I think it's a great movie, but the top, the top five of bon jun ho is it are all kind of like masterpieces it's, it's really hard to crack the top five, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:So we'll do mickey 17 at seven.
Speaker 1:Mother then slides in at six, and mother is the first time, um, that bong really starts to explore familial connections, um, and and he intertwines a lot of those themes with this murder mystery trope that he is so good at exploring, and so the basic gist of Mother is that it is all about a mother whose son that has a disability is accused of murdering a young girl, and she has to go through the film protecting her son, however, also trying to figure out if her son is actually guilty of committing this crime, and it's a really taut thriller that crescendos in a grand fashion.
Speaker 1:It's got a great ending to it, um, so, just again, like a really profound movie that that, in any, he starts to do this right throughout his career is that he is able to stack multiple themes within the same movie, whereas, like with barking dogs, and everybody really is just focusing on, like that, one idea of of life not being fair.
Speaker 1:This is about life not being fair. This is a really strong statement about, like the paternal bond that that parents have, and specifically like motherhood and how it can be so tender and yet so horrific the things you may have to go through as a parent, and even you know this is really interesting because it's like the parent of an adult child too. This isn't like being manipulative because we're using kids. This is a really adult story here. So I think Mother is a fantastic film, and and one that I think is just more effective and more well thought out and and more um concise than than Mickey 17, which does feel like there are a lot of loose ends, um hard to compare the two movies because they're so different, um, you know, content wise. But I can look at Mickey 17 and say that, like there there's too many ideas without, like they don't really quite close the loop, whereas mother is a really strong statement.
Speaker 1:So then at five, I have the host. I have the host as well.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have the host, I have the host as well. Okay, yeah, the host, you know, is Bong Joon Ho's big monster movie, again surrounded around a family and a bit of classism in there as well, but a really fun monster movie and again like something that I feel like when it came out was very fresh and new but revisiting. I just think it falls a little short of of kind of the heights he goes to after the hosts, even though it it, it is a great, you know. It reminds me of Cloverfield, right In the moment. Cloverfield was fantastic In the moment, the host was fantastic. But I think you can still feel some, some growing pains in the host.
Speaker 1:I think I think the host has, um, it has a bit of a letdown in the third act. I think that the first act of of the host is so good and then in the second act there's still a lot of intrigue and you're getting into a lot more of um. The environmental message that bong is trying to communicate in this too, like this is this is a monster that has spawned from, you know, like nuclear waste, uh, human neglect to to our environment, um and and so again like a really strong statement about a lot of different things. And and I just feel like in the third act, whenever I revisit this film and this is, I mean, we love the host.
Speaker 1:The host is a movie that plays at repertory screenings, that has been circulating, um on streaming services and has been accessible for a really long time now, um, so I don't think it'd be spoiling too much to say, but just the way that, the way that the movie wraps up, um, I I just feel like could have been more effective, um, and and maybe I don't know not to turn. We don't want it to turn into like a godzilla movie at the end, but also like that's the kind of movie he's trying to make here um and and so, yeah, I I also love the host, but feel that there are four stronger films. Yeah, so what's in the fourth spot okja, okja, okja.
Speaker 2:So I have memories of a murder here.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's tough because higher up on my list.
Speaker 2:I'll just say that so memories of a murder, again like very much set in reality. One of his more earnest films, I'm guessing, probably has more in um relation to something like mother. As far as a thriller, uh, it still has some comedy bits throughout the. What's the? The lead actors? Song Kane Ho, who, bon, it's like his De Niro right, like he shows up in almost all of these films does a great job in our lead lead role. I just found it. I just found it a little dull compared to his other stuff, and that's probably just because it is a straight down the line cop thriller as opposed to something like a snow piercer, an oak jaw, I think even you, though Parasite is definitely based in the real world. It even has a little bit more flair than Memories of a Murder, which is why I have it behind those films.
Speaker 1:So, gosh, should I talk about Okja at my four and why I think it goes there, or my perceived strengths of Memories of a Murder? I'll just, I'll say this right now and then I'll go into Okja. For me, memories of a Murder is a perfect film. I think it's 10 out of 10, and if you're going to compare it to another film from another director's filmography, that I think it's treated the same way and yet has kind of had a reclamation. Uh moment, although not, and not to say in memories of murder, doesn't? There are millions of fans of this movie out there, but memories of murder is his zodiac, where, where it, especially for being his second film, I don't know, I mean, if we did an episode of like best sophomore feature films. I for me, I'm putting memories of murder on there because the jump that he takes for to this from barking dogs never bite is so profound. It is because this turns in to the, the procedural murder mystery epic cop drama that, much like Zodiac, intentionally has a lull in energy throughout it because the case goes cold. And so you are really stuck with these detectives as they are starting to go crazy themselves because they cannot find a new hot lead. They are going nowhere. They are circling the wagons. They're going to the same places over and over again.
Speaker 1:I think that it is such a well-crafted film and then, the last time I rewatched it, I did a whole deep dive into the special features on the criterion disc that I own. This was based on, like the longest cold case murder mystery in south korea in history. And the final shot of this film, song kang ho, looking down the barrel of the film, almost saying, like the killer is still out there, like Like I could be, he is looking, breaking the fourth wall through the camera intentionally to say like I could be looking at the murderer right now, or I could be looking at somebody right now that knows something that could help us solve this case. Because, again, spoiler alert, this movie came out 20 years ago now. But. But the movie ends, much like Zodiac does, without knowing who the killer is.
Speaker 1:What ended up happening in reality is that, after the release of this film, the murderer came forward and confessed to the kills and it was all founded, and so it wasn't just someone you know trying to take credit for the murders portrayed on screen or something like that. So not only is this movie, I think great, but it is so incredibly important because it actually did help solve like a decades-long cold case um in south korea, so, um, just kind of a mind-blowing thing. I don't know if any other movie is yeah, I had.
Speaker 2:I had no idea about that.
Speaker 1:So, um, I just so for me, I mean, like we'll get to this, we're going to have to litigate it later. Memories of Murder is my number one, and so then, going back to Okja, at my number four, this has nothing to do with Okja and everything else of you know, everything other, everything else to do with the fact that the other three films are so strong above it. I think this movie is incredibly sweet and I, again, I think that this is, um, this is really good because it's it's bong, showing us something different at the time, showing us that he does have this, this really sweet side, this sentimental side, that he can still marriage with something else, like having a commentary on factory farms and the way we treat animals, um, and and also just like the childlike wonderment, um, of something like my neighbor totoro, and so I love it for all of that yeah, yeah, so my neighbor totoro is something I thought of.
Speaker 2:Et is something I thought of I mean it's. It's his spielberg movie, right? Um, and particularly the, the chase scene, uh, with the main, when our main gal is is chasing the truck through the city, uh, and then you know, and, and again it's just like just the performances throughout are are absolutely insanely good. What Paul Dano is doing in this film. Steven Yeun, again, is here.
Speaker 1:Gyllenhaal is really good.
Speaker 2:Gyllenhaal is a cartoon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's insane.
Speaker 2:I swear he's like the bug napper from Pokemon. He is doing something wild in here, uh. And then tilda swinton also doing the duality role uh, playing twins. Uh, doing great. Gincarlo espinone doing exactly what he does these days playing a bad guy. Um, yeah, okja, and and it. But it all is also extremely manipulative, like the, the, the scene of the pigs, of the super pigs, going up the belt.
Speaker 1:I mean it, it works, it works on you, it makes you cry, it makes you feel um, and I would say this movie ends on a hopeful note to the very last shot of the film, but the final 10 minutes, once you realize what's been happening with this pig and how its life has been controlled, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely so, it is, really, it's. It's. It pulls at your heartstrings. And not to say that, like every movie that that, just like I don't, you know, it's tough to say like manipulates you into caring so much, but that's just what happens when we watch movies about animals and children, um, and, and that when we can tie them into our own contemporary lives and and understand, and, and our better understanding of how factory farms and these giant corporations have, you know, they've, they've torn apart environments, they've slaughtered millions of animals, all these different things, um, so, yeah, that's not an indictment of the film at at all, um, but so I have, I have it. At four, okay, three, I have snow piercer, snow piercer, I have.
Speaker 2:I have snow piercer at uh at two.
Speaker 1:Okay, uh at two Okay.
Speaker 2:Cause I have Oak chat, three of memories of a murder at four, and then you have parasite.
Speaker 1:I have parasite one, yeah, Um.
Speaker 2:however, if you've got memories of a murder at one.
Speaker 1:I think, listen, this is one of those things where, like I know, coming into this, I had to just be true to myself on the record that Memories of Murder is my favorite Bong Joon-ho film, but I understand that consensus is probably going to wind up being Parasite number one.
Speaker 2:Well, what if? How do we feel about Snowpiercer at four?
Speaker 1:Snowpiercer could go for I have it at three. You had it where two, two, so it's a bigger drop for you than it is me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that gets my beloved Oak up to three.
Speaker 1:And then you're going to give me memories at two.
Speaker 2:Well, we can have the memories against parasite talk.
Speaker 1:I. I mean, I don't really know if there is much of a conversation to have there. I just like as we. We should probably just save parasite and figure out what we're gonna do with okja and snowpiercer first. I like the idea of putting snowpiercer at four and okja at three snow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Snowpiercer is fucking fantastic. I just watched it this afternoon or rewatched it, it's one of the best action movies of the decade.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, it is incredibly violent throughout the whole thing, which is really awesome.
Speaker 2:Again we're contained one pretty much one space right. One train movie, a one day movie. It's got great world building. It's got something to say about classism and how we treat you know, the lower class Also could be Chris Evans like greatest performance. I mean the monologue at the end is unbelievable. Before he goes in to see Wilford Unbelievable stuff it is, you know, and like, what a cool, like I want to see more of this world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to know how things became frozen, so I think it does a really good job at that.
Speaker 1:It's a great don't show tell but don't show kind of movie.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and it's got an awesome. I was actually in the middle of watching it. I was like whatever happened to Jamie Bell? Where did Jamie Bell go? Great question. He was so good, but yeah, you've got Jamie Bell, you've got Octavius Spencer, you've got.
Speaker 1:John.
Speaker 2:Hurt.
Speaker 1:Tilda Swinton again. Ed Harris.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a really good movie. It's a really really good action movie. Okay, how about Oak Jet 4 for snowpiercer at three?
Speaker 1:okay, and then memories to parasite one I think so.
Speaker 2:I because I think that's right I think that's right parasites. The. The oscar winner. Right, it was the. The bonjour junho moment.
Speaker 2:It's the one that moved the needle for everything else for everything else and you know something like memories of murder, or Oak gym might be for like the. You know the real heads. Um, but parasite is just. It was such a phenomenon when it came out. It is such a good movie. It is again another very like dark ending. Uh, it has something to say clearly, um, and it's funny as action has gore, has even a very horror. Yeah, um, like that. I remember watching it in the theater, that for the first time you see that guy's head come up from the eyes, the white of his eyes just frightening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really scary, really scary I would love to see bond take on just a straight horror movie I would as well.
Speaker 1:I think that would be really cool, um, because he's shown he's shown the ability to cause great tension throughout so many of his other films where I feel like he could really set the atmosphere. Well, you know, leading up to it's, you'd be hard to say except for maybe fire walk with me that like David Lynch ever really directed a horror movie, but he had just such a good way of making you feel unsettled, and that's what bong has been able to do, and a lot of his movies is make you feel unsettled. Um, parasites in extremely unsettling film, while also being a great black comedy, while also, um, you know, having real, no real protagonists in the film. No one is really, it is a true ensemble. Nobody is absolved from their fate, no one. No one gets out with with a bad hand, with something they did not deserve, so to speak. And so Parasite's great Parasite's also one of the.
Speaker 1:You know, parasite is a really smart movie in comparison to something like Mickey 17 that it's not using voiceover but it's using, um, so much dialogue between the characters over different scenes that aren't happening when, like I think about, you know, the sister, and she is organizing everybody coming to the house and so you're seeing things that are happening in the house, um, and she's explaining these things to her family, but we're what we're seeing is this other family living in luxury in this amazingly high-tech house in the suburbs, versus then in the slums. Really, and I know everyone talks about it. But you always just go back to that scene when the other family comes home early from their camping trip and our family, who we've been following this entire time, has to basically retreat back subterranean to their home and they have gone. It's so smart the way he does it, because they've gone from living up here in lavish luxury and this ivory advantage of these other people, and then, in the pouring down rain, they have to go lower and lower and lower and lower, downstairs, downhills, down ramps, all the way to their house, which is now submerged underwater. So, just like the symbolism behind so many different scenes in that movie, but that one in particular, I think Hong is just so. That's why it is his magnum opus and will always be remembered as that.
Speaker 1:I think because everything just came together at the right time. It was the right time for for the film to be released. Um, you know, in society, politically, the way that we were feeling about things right before a global pandemic too is is it's funny to go back and watch that movie now, post pandemic and and after the way that people treated each other, um, during lockdown, where, of course, some people came together, some people felt more divided just such such an important movie that really felt kind of like one of those you know and it, of course, comes out 2019, one of the great movie years of this century. It really does feel like one of the last important movies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree with that well said, so we're putting parasite at one parasite at one memories of murder two memories of murder two as a fincher guy, I can't believe you don't like memories of murder more it's well listen as yes, uh, I can't believe it either, and just like Zodiac it takes, it's going to take a couple of times.
Speaker 1:It does it 100 percent does, and it's long. It's again. It's like two hours and 20 minutes or something like that. Much like a Zodiac. And so it is not always the the fun crowd pleasing like Friday night night movie that you're gonna fire up as you're sitting down to eat dinner. Um, it is much more of like a rainy sunday.
Speaker 2:You're like, okay, let's do this yeah, yeah, I think I think I I need to re-examine it, uh, over and over again, and I I have a dvd copy of it, so nice, happy to do that and then Snowpiercer at three and I guess Snowpiercer beats Okja just because of the mere feat, some of the practicality, I think, behind Snowpiercer. Yeah, and like again, it shows Chris Evans as a good actor, which is a huge feat, very true, because he has not done anything good in a long, long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love your letterbox review of Okja, our number four film, calling it like a live action Studio Ghibli film. That's totally incredibly accurate?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is that I fell in love eight times with that pig throughout that film and yeah, I just. It's a real good, just like Kid, like you said, I think like child wonderment film, you know it's in.
Speaker 1:Spielberg for sure. The host. His monster film comes in at five Mother, his first dabble into pairing a murder mystery with familial ties in at number six Mickey 17. At seven, with perhaps room to grow, we shall see. And then his number eight film is his first film Barking dogs never bite. Bong has, of course, collaborated with other filmmakers on anthology films. He has numerous short films that range anywhere from five minutes to like 35 to 40 minutes, so it's not like this is everything he's ever done. So obviously he'd been working for a very long time over in South Korea and, as we said, that parasite moment really moved the needle and made him, I think, an international icon really in this space. So an incredible filmmaker whose work, if you are unfamiliar with. I hope we've done a good job today talking about how there really are no misses, no skips.
Speaker 2:It's really true. Like all of these movies I think you said at the top, like the, the least of these movies is a seven of 10. So really really good films.
Speaker 1:All right, so that'll do it for us on today's episode. Until next time, please follow. Excuse the intermission on Instagram and the three of us on letterbox that includes Erica to see what we're watching between shows, and we'll talk to you next time on ETI, where movies still matter. Thank you.
