Excuse the Intermission
Alex, Erica and Max take you on a journey through film with this discussion podcast about movies.
Excuse the Intermission
ETI’s Eddington Review feat. Filmmaker Kalee Quiñones
Sheriff Joe Cross patrols a small New Mexico town where tension simmers beneath the surface. It's May 2020, and the pandemic has unleashed a torrent of fear, conspiracy, and mistrust that threatens to tear Eddington apart.
When we meet Joaquin Phoenix's Sheriff Cross, he's a man grasping for control – of his town, his marriage to Emma Stone's increasingly distant wife, and the looming threat of COVID-19. His power struggle with Pedro Pascal's Mayor Ted Garcia initially plays as absurdist comedy, filled with mask debates and protocol disputes that feel simultaneously ridiculous and unnervingly familiar. But Aster isn't interested in simple pandemic nostalgia or pointed finger-wagging.
As protests ignite following George Floyd's murder, the film transforms into something far more dangerous. Phoenix's fragile authority figure, obsessed with maintaining power he never truly possessed, descends into paranoia and violence. What follows is a white-knuckle thriller that examines how quickly social order can collapse when trust erodes and technology weaponizes our worst impulses.
Aster's genius lies in refusing to choose sides. His unflinching camera examines everyone – from performative activists to conspiracy theorists, from power-hungry officials to corporate puppeteers. The result feels like a definitive artistic statement about America's fractured landscape, where phones replace six-shooters and the true villains might not be who we expect.
Darius Khondji's breathtaking cinematography captures both the vast emptiness of the New Mexico desert and the claustrophobic tension of a community at war with itself. The performances, particularly Phoenix's slow-burning descent into madness, elevate this beyond typical genre exercises into something genuinely haunting.
Eddington is that rare film that feels immediately essential – a time capsule created in the moment, yet with the clarity that usually comes only with distance. It leaves us with troubling questions about where we've been and where we're headed. Watch it now and be part of the conversation about one of the year's most provocative cinematic achievements.
how's it? I'm alex macaulay and I'm max fosberg and this is, excuse the intermission, a discussion show surrounding how you're being manipulated. Eddington, the fourth feature film from auteur filmmaker ari aster, is now in theaters nationwide and reminding us of a not too distant past filled with paranoia, protests, protocols and all kinds of ridiculousness. Joining max and I on the other side of this intro to discuss the film is kaylee, so we will be right back with our full spoiler included conversation in just a moment. All right you. How are we doing today?
Speaker 2:We're good. We just got out of the car from a long ride, so we are happy to be here.
Speaker 3:Yes, we were on vacation. Vacation was really nice. It was like a one-day. We had a one-day vacation and yeah, so nice. Had like a few beers today but took a long nap in the car feeling ready.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I was going to say no rest for the wicked, but I'm glad to hear you got a couple of road sodas in you and then that's great.
Speaker 1:I was not drinking in the car for the record, but long past those days, hopefully uh, so we took last week off I, not by design, really, but had I have known the energy that I was going to be coming into this episode with um, based off of my response to the film eddington, I think I would have like requested a week to prepare um and almost like push this recording back.
Speaker 1:So I needed more because because I'm like I need more time to process what I watched a few days ago. But but so let's kind of talk about how we're coming into this episode and just like the energy that we're bringing to the pod today, because I had no real idea of what Eddington was going to be about, other than it's the fourth film from Ari Aster. I know the cast that's involved and that it takes place during the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic, and that's all I needed to know. So where were the two of you at with this film? Sort of coming off of Bo's Afraid 2 maybe, and then also what you knew about um, the film, based off your exposure to either trailers or reading any articles or listening to interviews. Kaylee, go ahead yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Um. So, yeah, I was really excited to see this and like I didn't really realize it was coming out this weekend and I was like out at a lunch date, being in la and like across from let's please three, and I saw the the poster like up on the billboard and I was like, oh my god, it's out today. And so then, like I get home and tech max is already like texting me, like are we gonna go tonight? And I was like, oh, yeah, we have to go. We're also like getting ready to leave town. We're trying to leave early at eight in the morning, eight in the morning the next day. So we're just like, okay, we're going. We're like we're so excited for this, we're just gonna make it happen 8, 45 and get there. Um, and then, yeah, I mean obviously our yesterday's amazing, so I was really excited for it. Such amazing casting.
Speaker 3:We had seen the trailers like multiple times, just because we go to the movies so much, and you're seeing that trailer every time and you like can't max would like half the time he would like be covering his ears and eyes and trying to like not see it. But, um, yeah, I mean the trailer really doesn't give you a lot like I came into it in the car when we're walking on the way there, I was like this is like a social media movie. That's all I remembered from the trailers, the times I'd seen. He's like I feel like it's much more than that, like, so I just didn't really know what it was really. That's all I remembered.
Speaker 3:I actually didn't remember that it was a pandemic film at all, which obviously is such a big part of the story, and I really loved Bo's Afraid it definitely was like. You know, it's very different than this film, which we'll get into later. But yeah, I think that like I was excited just for the place he was at, if that was where he was at, just like really weird, um, funny. You know, yeah, really weird and funny, I was ready for yeah, I mean, ari Aster, uh, is kind of a event.
Speaker 2:He's becoming an event at the theater, right. So going into this film, I was very excited. I'm someone who really, really enjoyed Bo's Afraid. I remember seeing that with you, alex, at the Grand.
Speaker 1:I actually got to tell this story of our experience of Bo's Afraid to somebody at my screening of Eddington, because I was in the same theater and do you remember what I'm talking about where there was someone who had to access the hearing impaired device that the grand cinema offers. And kaylee, I don't know if you've ever heard this story really but like just mind meld between max and I, because not that that's an issue or anything, but the device was just turned up so loud and they were right behind us, and so Max and I were hearing the film being narrated while also just trying to watch it, and so it would be like a man walks down an overpopulated street full of vagrant you know audio descriptions.
Speaker 3:As an editor, we have to like get those sent out and get audio descriptions, Totally yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, they're amazing. The detail is amazing on those things. We heard every bit of it for about a minute and then without even really signaling to each other, making eye contact or anything. At the exact same moment, max and I just got up and didn't discuss where we were going to go. He went forward, I went backward, and that's how we watched.
Speaker 3:I was afraid. Afraid was just like separate from each other in the same theater. Fast thinking with no talking. I feel like that's such a movie lover solution too, that we're like we're not gonna discuss where we're gonna go, we're just gonna get up and go.
Speaker 1:We know we can't watch two plus hours of of a film like this, though. Um. So yeah, I was.
Speaker 2:I I was thinking about that experience going into eddington as well, max yeah, and despite, despite the that, that experience starting like that, really, really loved that film, uh, owned it on on physical, um, I've fired it up at least once since, uh, since the theater, uh, experience. But but yeah, I mean kind of going into this. You know I, I was, I was very excited for all the, the movie stars that are in this, that populate this world, uh, and this and this movie, uh, and then you know it just from the trailer. You know I, I immediately got no country for old men, vibes, right, like a modern western, um, we're in new mexico. You know the desert, we've got cowboy hats, um, you know, I think in that trailer they show and we're going to get into spoilers I, I think throughout this podcast but you know, mg, uh, big machine gun, uh, firing away. So, uh, yeah, I was, I was very, very excited and, like I, I love that.
Speaker 2:Ari, you know, I know a lot of people talk about, uh, you know he started in with with hereditary and horror and he seems to have kind of drifted away from that genre. I it all, they all, I think all four of his films all really speak to each other, uh, and this is still a genre picture right, it is a western, uh, and and some other genres in there. But, like I'm, I'm totally okay with him, him going off the beaten path. But I've heard a lot of people kind of complain about that because they hold hereditary at such a high value. But yeah, very excited going in and, like Kaylee said, I was like, hey, I think I'm going to be home at like seven o'clock. I think there's an 8 45 we can get to like let's go see it tonight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, and you know, I think that the more you look at some of his like short films that came out before hereditary bow is afraid, and now eddington almost speak more to what he was interested in exploring with his short films prior to hereditary and then midsommar, and midsommar is almost becoming more of the like bridge film kind of between them. Um, and so I don't, I don't think that people should be as upset as maybe they are getting, thinking that we're like losing the next, like west craven or somebody that's just gonna like stay in this genre forever and, and you know, maybe that's gonna be start to become more robert edgars, who just kind of stays in like the horror, gothic um have horror and gothic tones to his films, and so I I do like what we're getting um from ari here now, because what he showed and beau was afraid I think he doubled down on and kind of proved we're getting so much more out of him.
Speaker 1:This way we're getting so much more.
Speaker 3:He's such a freaking genius and like to have him discussing this real stuff that matters is to me so much more valuable.
Speaker 1:That's also my taste speaking, but yeah for sure, and I think that some of the at for me personally, like some of the satire and some of the comedy that didn't work 100% of the time in Bo's Afraid, while it's still being there and recognizing it and seeing this shift in tone, I think in Eddington he got it right every single time he went for it, so really enjoyed that about it. I'll just start by saying this I loved the movie. Um, I think that something I've tried to work on as a moviegoer is recognizing and max and I've talked about this on multiple episodes before but recognizing early on when a movie kind of has quote, unquote it, and so that you can really try to be present in the moment as much as possible. So it isn't like you know your third or fourth viewing that you really start to recognize it. You want to like, try to be like oh my gosh, this is actually happening and I'm here for it Weekend one. I'm seated, it's all going down right now in front of me and and so that kind of rare electric energy I could feel early on in this movie.
Speaker 1:Um, and I really, really, when that happened, um, it was a great sensation because it is almost like listening to a record or an album that you know is gonna like, you're gonna play, not just like a song off of this, but like this entire cd, like I've had this happen with you know, like a glass animals album or lana del rey or somebody where I'm like I'm gonna listen to this album, not just these songs, like for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:And I can think about that with a few other movies from maybe the last like five or ten years, um, like like I wrote down here raw climax, um so the julia ducar new film, the gaspar no film, the handmaiden park chan wooks film and then also mid samar by ari aster, where I'm like these are movies that when I saw them I was like these are very recent contemporary movies but that, like are already in my top 25 of of all time. And I don't know if eddington's gonna go so far as to like crack, crack a list like that. But that's just the feeling that I had in the theater and coming out of it and still, like 48 hours removed, was like I'm so happy I experienced this week one.
Speaker 3:It feels like a historical document, like it feels like this, like it will to me it will live on, just because of at the least of what it's about, just because to me it's like such a great capture, like a great bottle you know bottle in the ocean, like it just feels like so capturing it, like it was just such a weird, like you're saying, like the feeling watching it was my first like review and feeling of it was just the way the movie made me feel and the way, from the very beginning, I was so intrigued.
Speaker 1:I was immediately obsessed with joaquin phoenix's walk work, like the way he was walking so I was gonna ask like was there a moment that kind of signaled it to you?
Speaker 3:and I feel like that's one where, like you just see the way that joaquin's going to be holding himself and you're like, oh, this is something yeah, this is for real and yeah, but then, like as it like, and just the feeling of like feeling the axe, like feeling the progression, like you could just feel it like just get faster and faster like a roller coaster and I love that when someone does it in a really awesome way, because it's like, because you miss the structure. I've been thinking about a lot because I'm taking screenwriting classes and I'm writing a lot, so I'm constantly like aware of like how much do I feel the structure of this film and this one I just didn't feel it at all and I love that about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I, yeah, I think it's it's such a, it's such a great experience because it's it is a modern film about modern times, right, and it is particularly about how, you know, the United States of America is right now and it represents something, I think, that we went through, but also stuff that we are still going through, and I think it just makes it extra important and something that we'll look back on is like touchstone or masterpiece that we can hold on to. That gives such a great snapshot of the time and feeling that that we were all having. Um, you know, because we, I think you know we always mentioned that like, not a lot of like movies that are set in modern day get made because of stuff like technology and and and the phones and computers and all that. But this is able to, uh, this is able to clearly and effectively show that technology and use that technology, but then really it just it's a movie that just makes you feel and reminds you how you were, how people were feeling during, you know, the year 2020.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. It's kind of. My next big thing here is, like COVID was used as a backdrop in this movie and not a gimmick like so many other films that I think have come out since 2020. And so I don't know, how did that? How did that feel for you guys? Because it's not like it was meant to be nostalgic, but it was supposed to be set as a real setting in a fractured town and especially like the smaller the town that you lived in and, depending on where you were geographically in the united states, like all the social unnerving and the misinformation and everything that was happening, like there was so much chaos and desperation, I think, communicated in this film in a really smart, witty and funny way.
Speaker 3:That does feel like something that we all experienced, even if we didn't have a firsthand account, like like the things that played out in the film yeah, and I mean my first thing about this, like even listening to max talk about this movie and like how it's so crazy how it captured the feeling we all were having.
Speaker 3:But to me, what makes it one of the many things that makes it brilliant is the fact that it's all from the sheriff's point of view and he does not have the same point of view as a lot of us in this room. Um, but yeah, so I think that that's what I love is like how it can still elicit that emotion of being so relatable, just because it's capturing the world. Like the mise en scene is so strong, of like what's going on, but yet it like puts you in the anti-hero's place, like that's where you're really seeing it all from. And like also talking about the technology you know we were talking about. You know there's not as much emma stone, necessarily as much as joaquin, and part of that is because it's so from his point of view. Like all the point of view is him texting her at work. You know he's at work at the sheriff's office and like that's what his relationship is like with her.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so I just think that, like POV and the way he used it to elicit emotion and to um explore the world, like choosing to explore that world through this specific perspective, is just to me so ballsy and interesting through this specific perspective is just to me so ballsy and interesting.
Speaker 1:I think it's so inner, like it's so funny the way that um ari chooses to introduce emma stone's character and joaquin's character and then you get to know the relationship between this husband and wife, but like he is looking up ways to like effectively communicate with her on his phone, while right next to that right next to him and his police cruiser is his laptop screen and she's the wallpaper on there, and so like he's so obsessed with her, with that, but without actually knowing anything about her, and like this trauma that she's clearly been trying to process for years and years and years. And, and you know you, you start to learn more about that as the film goes on. But already, just thinking back on it, I'm like there's just he's one of these like a Stanley Kubrick where you're like nothing on screen is there by accident.
Speaker 2:Totally, totally. He's such a meticulous director and like every detail. Not that his films don't have flaws, but you're right that everything is intentional.
Speaker 3:I love that about him yeah, like just go ahead, go ahead I was gonna say like, on the note of the relationship, like the relationship itself is so thought-provoking. Like we walked out of the theater I was like it's just interesting how in love with her he is, and max was like he's not in love with her, like, so like kind of like on exactly what you're saying and it kind of elicits this, this debate of like, what love is and what, how love happens.
Speaker 3:And then also, um but yeah, I thought that was I didn't even remember that opening what max reminded me of it. We were like talking and I was like, oh, because they don't bring it back. And I think that's also really interesting, like from a writing standpoint again, of like you don't have to bring back every single little thing. But it still was such a great opener and gave us so much just from that one mention of it that he was no spoilers yet. But yeah, the like what he was youtubing about her and trying to communicate with her, yeah, yeah no, I think.
Speaker 1:I think we should give like a quick synopsis of the film and then really start to dive into spoilers, because if you are listening to this uh podcast without having seen the film, kudos to you. We are going to just like go all in though here. But so, if you don't know, it is a Western, a modern Western, that takes place in New Mexico, may of 2020, I believe it is. So, you know, take yourself back five years and try to think of what was going on in your life then. And Joaquin Phoenix is the sheriff of this small town. Also in this small town is Pedro Pascal. He is the mayor figure. He is up for reelection.
Speaker 1:The first hour of the movie is really these two powers in town having this ridiculous dispute over policies and procedures and the way that they are going to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic and all the other little, very interesting nuances that are taking place in this town.
Speaker 1:Some of it is on Pueblo territory, and so there's this indigenous component to this story, and so you get all of these little things that were introduced to his relationship with Emma Stone, who is very despondent to him.
Speaker 1:They have her mother living with them now. You can tell that there's tension there. Joaquin has a very small department in the sheriff's office and so it sets up for some really, really funny moments that are two-part funny because they're written extremely well, but also because the absurdity of it all and I think that five years removed from this time, maybe some folks who wouldn't be laughing, um, who would not have been laughing five years ago, can kind of we can all kind of take a step back and and have a good time with this, and so that's before we get to like the second half of the movie and then when it really turns, let's just like pause for a second. Do you guys think that like this felt more in tune, um, based off of our relationship that we have with that time now, as opposed to a lot of the covid movies that were coming out about covid that were in production in like 2020, 2021, 2022, when it started to feel maybe like a little bit too on the nose?
Speaker 3:I think. First of all, I think it's interesting. I've been hearing that people are saying this like is a little too soon for some people, which I think is really funny, just because it's like to me that was so satisfying, like how recent it is. It's really still not that. Also, I think we keep forgetting how long ago covid was. Now like five years is a lot of time in life, um, but okay, what are other films that are covid related that you're thinking of? I'm curious because I actually don't really. I think this one was just so on the nose with it.
Speaker 1:It doesn't almost doesn't even come to mind yeah, I mean so many of them were like small mid-budget films that were like being released straight to streamers. Like I know, HBO had one with a couple that was in lockdown Chuelta, Chuelta Tay Ejiofor in like.
Speaker 1:Hathaway and Hathaway were in that one. Another movie that I really like by Soderbergh Kimmy came out. I like that film, but that used the pandemic in a different way. A lot of horror films came out that played with the idea of like people wearing masks and stuff like this. So we did get a lot of them, but nothing on this scale and nothing that had the benefit like. This movie has an incredible tagline. I don't know if you guys saw, but it's hindsight is 2020 that's the yeah, really good.
Speaker 1:So, um, not that this is a pandemic movie, but something else that it. That it's gotten me thinking about is that, like this movie and the social network, I think, have a lot in common with each other because of how soon that was after the events of like facebook launching and mark zuckerberg's kind of like rise and fall and everything else like that, and I think aaron sorkin and david fincher were praised for like jumping on that early and not telling a story like 20 or 30 years prior.
Speaker 3:I think that we're gonna have the same sort of relationship to this film because of how soon it came after the events in which it's portraying yeah, and I think it's also interesting because it's such a specific, like the fact it's in this made-up town, eddington, um, so I'm from lawrence, cancer, so I'm a small town like 90 000 people. So it's interesting because a lot there was a lot more parallels than to our like washington life, because washington kind of had so many people like even tacoma has a lot of people, seattle especially. I was in seattle during the pandemic, which was total hell, um, just because it's such an expensive city and I didn't have any work. I'm a freelancer but, um, but it stressful, um, but being from like a small town, though, it was really interesting going back and seeing how many people were against masks.
Speaker 3:That was a huge. And this is like a liberal town. This is a depth, like cool, cool people that were very anti-mask and mostly because of the kind of little true thing of like it really wasn't happening in those places. There wasn't a lot of people as much as much it happens and it's still like we have to consider people. But I just think it was interesting to hear that of like. I remembered hearing that and remembered, like studying that of like what do people mean when they say because it's happening everywhere?
Speaker 1:that that's what I'm saying where this movie almost has this weird, um, like mandela effect of like I'm sitting here thinking did I hear somebody say that, like well, there's no covet in Gig Harbor, you know? Because, like people are like well, there's no COVID in Eddington, when he has that line, I'm dying laughing, cause I'm like, whether or not you've lived in a town that had people believing that or not, you feel like you heard somebody say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's. That's definitely part of, like, the brilliance of the film to set it in such a small town and I think maybe that's why it's it's way more effective than something like that, that Anne Hathaway movie, right where they're like in a big city and they're like, if I remember that movie correctly, they're like robbing jewelry stores during the pandemic.
Speaker 2:And then like kind of hiding out together and stuff, like yeah, I don't know which is which is odd, that's just an odd premise to begin with, but, um, but yeah, I'm setting it in a rural small town, yeah, uh, and also like new mexico is kind of like like the forbidden zone of of america, like there's just nothing there. I know a friend that grew up in New Mexico and I remember him telling me when we first met that he had like 40 kids in his graduating high school class and so just to begin with, there's just nothing out there, right, and it's just a great setting for what turns into like a paranoia conspiracy, you know driven film, because it's such a small group of people.
Speaker 1:So that's really then when the movie starts to take this turn into its second hour. They really last like the final 90 minutes of the film and all these other characters that we've been introduced to. Like Pedro Pascal, he has a teenage son and he has a friend, and they're both sort of interested in the same woman, this activist of sorts in this small town, because as the movie goes along, the real events of that time start to play out. So you have the murder of george floyd, you have the blm movement, you have so much going on that once again feels like a lived experience to us.
Speaker 1:And then and then the movie does what I won't say is becoming like ari's signature um thing, but it it takes this like white knuckle turn into full tension building and chaos where this, this weak, feeble man who is obsessed with power and has no power that's always like the funniest part about it is they're obsessed with this thing that they don't actually have everything starts to spiral around them and it just turns into this like anxiety inducing, like real thriller of a movie that gets very gory at times. It turned that has like some great, not jump scares but incredible moments of sound design where something catches you off guard and you you do jump in your seat, um, and so once, once, like that absurdism kind of in the humor sort of turns. Do you think that that was executed well? Did you respond to that? How did you like the way that the movie sort of um hits us with the right and then hits us with the left and and goes for the knockout?
Speaker 3:next. Okay, I go first. Um, so I have. This is actually one of the things. I think my only like negative feeling of the whole movie and it's not this exact turn, but like the whole thing with the kids it's just a little hard to like that. The way that was playing out was a little bit forced, like when the kid, when, uh, pedro's son bikes by and he's like what about your wife? You know what about what? My dad is your wife? Right, there's a ton of like, little like punches trying to like remind us that there was a thing with the wife and peter pascal's character and it just that that whole thing was like a little bit just. It just didn't feel as much. I wasn't as invested in that like part until later, but then it has a great like payoff which makes it worth it. But I did feel like that was a little clunky, like, kind of like, and I think that is kind of the bridge that takes us partly into that, because part of the main, are we in the spoiler territory?
Speaker 3:oh, totally we're there because, right, the big thing is that when he kills um pascal, what is pascal's character name? Um, but yeah, kills the tech guy ted, ted, classic, um.
Speaker 2:So when he kills ted and his son, like that's really when things shift over, and part of that is due to that other storyline yeah, Well, I think, actually thinking about it more, that I think the kid always mentioning that kind of reinforces of how small this town is and how rural it is, because, even though we never really learned the the true story of of this rumor that's going around about joe cross's wife and ted from back when they were, what, 14 and 18 or whatever it is, um, I think that I I think that plays okay to to help remind us like, oh, we're in like a town of you know, 20 000 people no, it's like 5 000 people.
Speaker 1:We see it on the sign.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, 5 000 people. They're. They're everyone knows everybody and everyone knows everyone's business.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's like would you all call each other out?
Speaker 3:Would you all call each other out?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think the son has some power, right? Well he's he's exactly.
Speaker 1:He's playing to the archetype of like whatever you want to call it, a baron Trump. You know somebody who's like dad, is a politician and who is the most important and they feel like you know, they're untouchable. He's, he's driving around, he's you know the movie we are introduced to him like smoking weed with his like would be friend in front of a cop and him being like what's that smell?
Speaker 1:And the son responds like your ass or something like that you know, he's he's so entitled and, and you see that throughout his entire arc, um until yes, his character meets his demise because he's sending the dms to his friend, he's sending his dms to the police officer of him hooking up with this girl, um, who he's kind of that character.
Speaker 3:you plug in that character that you're like this is the character that's gonna wreak havoc and like fuck shit up in the story yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I don't know, max, what did you think about the turn when, when we went from like absurdist comedy almost to like absurdist thriller?
Speaker 2:I I loved it. It was, it was shocking. Yeah, I think I said this to you, alex that, and I think Kaylee too, but the this is like one of the first movies in a long time where I had no real idea where it was going, scene to scene, right, a lot of movies, you know, you can kind of see the, the, the light at the end of the tunnel, and like, okay, I, I know what path we're on, um, but this I I mean, I was, I was shocked. I was shocked when pedro pas killed. Yeah, I'm shocked when we shoot the kid as well, I'm shocked when we shoot the homeless man, like it is, and it all kind of happens like right in a row and so it's very.
Speaker 1:He's a spree killer. Yeah, yeah, it's just a great.
Speaker 2:It's a great experience of great experience of, like you know, being it's a twist, it's a, it's a great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, uh, that is so fun to watch happen it makes me think of the godfather, though, where it's like, all of a sudden, the solution is always just to kill everyone, right? That's always the solution in certain movies, you're like well, here's where we're going.
Speaker 1:The solution is just to kill people but I I agree with you and I'll like build and stack on that too, though, where, when this happens, it's an hour into the film and I'm not here to say that, like the satire and the world building of this small town and covid was starting to feel stale, but like after a solid hour of like really good laughs and really interesting plot development and character development, a little bit of me was thinking like how is this? Like where, how are we going to keep this going for another hour and a half? And then, when that turn happens, I'm like, once again it goes back to that like first five minutes of the movie where I'm like, oh yeah, I don't need to worry about that because I'm in good hands right now yeah, I love that, yeah, because I I mean any other director.
Speaker 2:It probably, you know, the final scene might turn into some some sort of like debate or something right between these two mayor candidates, right? Or? Or we just continue to go down this path of of this competition. Um, so yeah, to to totally switch lanes and be like, no, we're gonna, we're gonna have him become the world's greatest sniper, which is also set up earlier it is set up really well yeah it is.
Speaker 1:It is um so OK. So now I we have to talk about how kind of everyone is put under a microscope with this, with this film, and that really nobody's safe. And I love. I love that about this movie because it reminds me a lot of what we liked so much about a movie from last year Alex Garland's Civil War where you could feel like the filmmaker is not really picking a side, and I felt that in this movie a lot as well, where by the end of the movie you know like clearly who the bad guys and if there are anybody who, if there maybe is anybody who's kind of like comes out unscathed, then I can think of one character really, you know Deputy Michael, who is kind of like the one person who sort of comes out unscathed.
Speaker 2:But I mean physically scathed.
Speaker 1:Well yeah not physically um but, like from your, um, your performative social justice protesters to so funny right um, you know, to the cops and the politicians who are playing their power games, um, which which is, I think, such a great microcosm of of our country. Again, like what we're saying, this is set in 2025 or it's set in 2020, but it feels like it could be in 2025 because once again, like ari is showing us that everyone gets so caught up in left versus right and races, and like racism, and in different cultures clashing together, when really, like, the big bad in this movie is big data and big corporations, you know, coming in and they will use whoever, whatever puppet serves them best. Like at the beginning of the movie it is the Ted Garcia Pedro Pascal character. By the end of the film it's joaquin's character, and so I I think that, like between, and then even joaquin's uh, deceased, his late stepfather or father-in-law, um, you know, emma stone's dad in the in the film, who we never meet but we see he's always like, idolized.
Speaker 1:There's a a photo of him hanging in their house with a candle lit under it a shrine much like how I was texting back and forth with the friend who I went and saw this film with afterwards just like couldn't shut up about it, all these little things that that, um, I'm thinking of where I'm like that's like how people would idolize, you know, presidents. They would have a picture, you know, like a painting of Obama or JFK in your house or something like that. Well, here Ari is clearly making a point to be like. This is a man who, by circumstances of the film we are learning, is probably a pedophile and has probably abused his daughter and the mother, has been complicit the entire time. And this is someone who is also being like, worshiped and thought of as this, like great man who once held this community together.
Speaker 1:Draw through lines to our current president, draw through lines to whichever political figure who that's been in hot water for similar you know issues over the past couple of years. And I'm like we're no one's safe once again, like we're going after everybody with this script. Um, and so I just I love that. How did you guys sort of feel about you know it? Almost, to me it almost felt like an episode of south park where I'm just like, oh yeah, no one's safe, like just like we're gonna make fun of everybody yeah, I mean the internet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the Internet, social media, the cops, politics, religion, activism. It goes after every single thing and he touches on almost every issue that has really like divided us as as people. Right, and again, I think it's just such a great and it doesn't really take sides at all. Right, he just is examining the absurdity of it, and and again, what these people are, what these characters are feeling, um, and I I just think it's, it's masterly, it it's so well done, uh, and I I really enjoyed it, I I love you know I'm a huge fan of south park, so you making that connection makes so much sense to me.
Speaker 2:But yeah especially movies and and I think when you are tackling you know, I I feel like maybe in social network they also kind of did that too. Right, like zuckerberg is not the good guy in that movie. No, yeah, totally neither. Neither is timberlake's character, neither are the winklevoss twins. You know, maybe andrew garfield is kind of the one guy you feel empathy and sympathy for, but this movie there is, there is no good person here. There's no one. And again, it's a reflection of our world that we just we want to just scream and yell at each other and and deny each other Right.
Speaker 1:No one wants to agree. I think Scorsese quoted that about this film. He was like Ari does such a good job of painting this picture of people and how no one wants to agree with each other. Yeah.
Speaker 2:One line I really loved from Austin Butler's character was like when he's sitting down to dinner with Joe Cross and he's like we are denying the denial, it's just like a double negative.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so real. One thing I was going to say I love that Alex kind of touched on this, but also like the fact that everyone is attacked. But then I think that the big issue, the big issue is the system, the system being like the people that are making the data center, the business people, the big business people who are funding TED, these are the people that are really the issue. Business people, the big business people who are funding TED, these are the people that are really the issue. And you kind of get that at the very beginning, in that opening shot, like at the very opening, you get this like kind of like thesis stated, theme stated, where you have this homeless man trekking around and then you kind of zoom in on that sign of the data center being built, of like this is what's causing this and this is where the poverty happens in our country and this is where these things are really happening.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I think that, like that character is so important because he, to me, represents poverty and like what that? Yeah, just like which, to me, is the biggest problem in our country, in our world right now. And yeah, I think that the big business is is the biggest issue and I think that, yeah, like nobody's right because really as people we can't do anything when these people are puppeteers and controlling everything in the whole world. You know, and I think that was really interesting to see how we are in fighting and we need to have he said that in the interview on Big Pick, like it would be great if we had solidarity, because really it's not us that has control of any of this of this and he bookends the film with it.
Speaker 1:So you obviously know that he wants us thinking about that, where we see this town that has somewhat like rehabilitated itself post wild shootout in the middle of the night, and and then, after we zoom out, we see the data center has been built. It is now looming over this town, um, it once again just like a microcosm of of the united states, really, this small town of eddington, and how, yeah, whatever you want to call it, ai, um, you know it's coming for, it's coming for everybody. Uh, the company named golden magic carp, I think, is the name of the company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like so funny, um, but yeah, I mean the, the social media as a weapon, um, I I kind of want to go back to that because I feel like, for all of the acclaim that for the people who have really responded to this film and the things that I'm seeing now on trailers, um, or like tv spots advertising it, where it's just like the, the first true great Western da da, da, da da. What they don't tell you is that, like no one's holding a six shooter in this, in this movie, but they're all on their phones. Like the phones are the things that might as well have holsters like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that's what everybody is using kind of as their weapon, whether it is the teens and they're starting to, you know they're. They're again that, this performative social justice. They're just trying to like use it to hook up and and we're going to just like do a quick Google search of the author of the book that the girl's holding so I can go over and try to crack an icebreaker so fucking funny, um.
Speaker 1:Or or even Joaquin Phoenix trying to figure out a way to connect, like, god forbid, he goes and just talks to her, but he's going to try and figure out a way to communicate with his wife based off of a YouTube video that he's seen. Or the mother who falls asleep to the doom scroll of YouTube, just getting fed these different ideas. And so, yeah, I don't know. Once again, we see social media and we see cell phones used so much in movies. Max, you're absolutely right. A lot of people shy away from it in making modern movies now. Or if they are introduced, it's almost like going back up to the top.
Speaker 1:We're like Ari didn't use the pandemic as a gimmick. He also didn't use cell phones as a gimmick. In this phone, where the text bubbles are popping up on the screen and you're seeing how people are talking back and forth like that, there's nothing that feels trite about it at all. Once again just feels really like as something that we've done before, experienced before or something we've seen on reddit. You know, there's like the I I swear at one point they were watching videos of like chop and I'm like holy shit, like I and I say jane durkin the very beginning, the very opener was talking about jane durkin, the mayor of seattle, and I was like but, then max like looked at me.
Speaker 3:I was like, okay, I'll be quiet, but like I'm being from seattle, I was in la, but yeah, um, I think that, yeah, the social media is crazy.
Speaker 3:I want to touch quickly on the mom and like her whole thing with the social media and like her arc, like the fact that going back to also just like the world and who's the problem, though, like she, I think one of my one of my favorite like thematic moments with her is when Emma Stone tries to bring up that her dad, what her dad did to her, and her mom totally shuts her down and is like not there for her and I feel like her mom just has this way of like being there for her in weird moments and like kind of is the one who makes her run away with Vernon the, the big Scientology guy I'm calling gonna call him the Scientology guy because that to me is like his energy and then like, but then at the end she and she's like such a like antagonist to joe cross and then like at the end, like the fact that she actually like takes care of him in order to get all this power, like that was just to me like the perfect ending, the perfect bookend of like how nobody, everybody's a bad guy and everybody, like is kind of being selfish and doing whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just thought that was really crazy. And like also her just yeah, her influence, the social media influence, like she was so kind of brainwashed by it and like yeah, it was crazy she was.
Speaker 1:She was brainwashed by it. The same way, I'm sure she was brainwashed by her husband into thinking that this abuse either wasn't happening or that, if she did know it was happening, that she needed to become maybe not necessarily an enabler, but someone who just like, wasn't going to come forward, right and and then, yeah, once she feels like she, the little bit of power that she can start to have over Joaquin Sheriff's character, is like I'm going to, I'm going to do this thing for my daughter because I think it's what she needs, and then it ends up backfiring on her. Then, you know, joaquin's the only person she's left with, um, and he just happens to be in this vegetative state and she can once again, like, take advantage of the situation yeah, and one other thing about what you were saying about the phones that I thought was really interesting was like he he's such an amazing.
Speaker 3:He always has such great cinematography. The cinematographer of this, I know, is like one of the best cinematographers modern history. I don't think he's worked with the cinematographer before if I'm right yeah, but I think the cool thing with this that's the big one.
Speaker 3:And then I think the thing that's interesting is like filmmakers that don't want to use the cell phones it's because, like, you're scared of your film not being cinematic is kind of what I would feel about it but it's like if you use them for this really powerful story piece and then you can still have these epic shots like.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite shots in the film is when Joaquin Phoenix is like arguing with um Luis and through the door and it's like there's just a great and frame within frame which is very like Sergio Leone, with these like frames within frames, and he was able to like pull in a lot of that influence, which I thought was really cool. So, yeah, I just think that it was really impressive how it was still a gorgeous and like we compared as no country for old men, like those big landscapes that we got these gorgeous shots of, and like the phone the American, but there was still, like all these like just gorgeous, amazing landscapes and like, yeah, I just think that's amazing, like I could still win a cinematography award even though court you know, 25 to 35 of the film is phone screens like darius congee.
Speaker 1:I gotta give this guy a shout out. I'm looking at his his catalog right here yeah, I mean incredible stuff has worked with michael haneke a bunch funny games. Amore did panic room did seven. So a collaborator with fincher bong joon-ho. He did mickey, 17, uncut gems, oakja. Um, you know, throw in some guilty pleasures like the beach, the ruins, like all kinds of good stuff, yeah now add eddington to that list so amazing uh, yeah, music also.
Speaker 2:I thought that the score was incredibly well composed and did a great job of adding a lot of tension, especially to the second half of the film yeah, it seemed kind of like mild in the first half, which I liked, yeah yeah, and that again that draws comparisons to no country right Like we're, you know they're, they're almost trying to do in that first half like no score almost, but but then once the action or the tension or it becomes, you know, the the thriller that it is, it's, it's extremely effective um, so okay, I'm I've.
Speaker 1:I think it's time to kind of just like go off script here and talk about because I don't really have too much more um, and I don't want to like spoil absolutely everything for anybody listening who maybe hasn't seen the film or wants to go back and and re-watch it or something like that. But what were just like some of your favorite moments of the movie, or did you have a particularly fate like favorite performance, like what? What are the? What are the parts that stand out the brightest to you? Kaylee, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Um well, yeah, one of the other like last notes I was thinking of was comparing it to other films, two things like social network doesn't really attack the systems, as we were talking away earlier, compared to this one, and then also thinking of when he brings out the machine gun towards the end, like it felt very leonardo caprio, and the fire, the fire the flamethrower in once upon a time in hollywood, like.
Speaker 3:That's what made me think of. So, yeah, just like fun, all the different directions it went um favorite part I just was enjoying, I feel like just the whole progression of it. But I think that one of the most like, clever and like I love the kind of metaphor for it of like when the very the opener, when he's going to Pedro Pascal's bar and they're talking through the glass, like that to me is really memorable because the homeless guys there and he's like and they're just trying to like resolve the conflict between them and like we know that he can hear him, but he's saying he can't hear him like also just kind of interesting perspective thing that the film is playing with and like I think that scene was just so well played and just kind of once again makes reminds you that you're in good hands like this person.
Speaker 3:No, this director knows what they're doing and this is like this scene has a lot of meaning to it, even though it's kind of just. It's an everyday scene almost.
Speaker 2:Yeah well and again, kind of a another metaphor of like how we fight now is through computer screens, pieces of glass right where we just yell at each other as opposed to like coming into the same room and figuring out a solution. Yeah, I think by far my favorite moment in the scene, and probably the funniest moment, is when we're with the kids who are the BLM protesters. And Brad is it Brad or Brian? I?
Speaker 3:think it's Brian.
Speaker 2:The friend of Ted's son, brian, is being lectured on how his whiteness is bad and then, like smash cuts to him in his dining room with his parents and he's regurgitating this whole speech and then there is a long silence and then the dad is just like what the fuck are you talking about? You are white.
Speaker 3:My theater lost it, wait a minute. I love that moment.
Speaker 2:I love the moment when Joaquin Stops at the grocery store and has a mask and he's like, can't breathe, he can't breathe. And then he like takes off the mask and he has to go stand in line in front of the huge Ted mural. And then the whole, the whole scene inside there where, like, people are clapping because someone got kicked out for not wearing a mask, and Joaquin then starts yelling about policy and law and all that stuff someone pulls out their phone and he's like is this, is this good for your instagram?
Speaker 2:yeah, so funny uh, and then and then the end, the last scene that we see joe cross when he is lifted into bed in his vegetable state, and then the mother-in-law gets into bed, and then the, the home nurse also gets into bed.
Speaker 1:All three of them hilarious just hilarious and also, again, just like a confirmation that, like this, woman is also a predator and not a good person like, not that we didn't need any more confirmation, but just like one more reminder yep, yep, well, uh, what were some of your favorite moments, alex?
Speaker 1:so I love I the the movie really turns on the blm protest in downtown eddington and so I really really liked that segment of the film because that's kind of where the pivot sort of like that's the crux of the whole, pivot right there, like if that scene doesn't work, then I think the transition into chaos at the end doesn't really work either. But like so much is happening and the camera is going 360 around that entire group, um of people out there, there's just, like you know, there's a lot of blocking, a lot of staging that goes into something like that and it is equal parts funny, like how the first half of the movie has been, but then also equal parts, like someone might get shot at any second here, um, which is the feeling that you have throughout the entire final 90 minutes of the movie. And so I love that scene because I thought it was perfectly executed and sets us up for just a great final act. Everything when it does become a little bit of a conspiracy caper and the one officer from the Pueblo tribe, from their, their law enforcement agency, is starting to put things together. Like I'm sitting there and doing my best not to talk during the movie, but also kind of like sharing with my seatmate. I'm like, oh, oh, he's going to see like cause he he made mention of, like a handwriting specialist no justice, no peace in the way that the three was written. And if he goes back and goes to the police station he's gonna see the campaign ideas with the, the e written the same way, like the letter three or the number three and all these little things that like do start to unravel. Just like the more you pull the thread, like the looser it's gonna get for joaquin's character.
Speaker 1:You know that and so I loved when it just it was so propulsive for the final, like 45 minutes leading up to then this great shootout that again like I don't know where, like that's something I've not seen in ari's bag yet, like short films, feature films, anything like that. There's a little bit of like experimentation as far as um, you know, moving the camera around and bow is afraid in these big outdoor settings that are not controlled, and I just thought that the lack of score during that moment and when the camera would swing 90 degrees one way, you're waiting for a gun flash or something to come out of a dark alley. Nothing happens. It swings back 180 degrees the next direction and and it's almost like you're playing a first person shooter video game, um with him in the street, and so all of that was just amazing as well.
Speaker 1:Great sound design during all of it, um, with the bullets flying and stuff, and so, yeah, I mean as far as like, are we making an action movie? I don't know if we could ever. I don't know if we'll ever get like two hours we making an action movie. I don't know if we could ever. I don't know if we'll ever get like two hours of just an action movie, but I was like, holy shit, these are some chops that I didn't know he had.
Speaker 3:So good. One of my other favorite scenes is the very beginning, when we get introduced to the mom and she's like making breakfast or whatever, and she's talking to Emma Stone's character from the kitchen and she's like blah character from the kitchen and she's like blah, blah, blah going on all of her conspiracies and then she's like I can't hear you, what did you say? And then joaquin looks at her like don't, don't ask you know like we don't want to know which is such a classic family moment.
Speaker 1:I just feel like and then she's like what were you saying, mom?
Speaker 3:and he's like yeah, like don't do it, we don't want, we don't care what she's saying, so funny there are so many moments like that.
Speaker 1:I cannot. I've already made plans to go see it again. I cannot wait to just start to like get some of those. I don't necessarily think that they're one-liners the way that like super bad has one-liners but just like to really remember, like word for word, what some of those beats are um during that first hour, because there are so many laugh out loud moments in this movie. So now here's a question, because this was something that I had to do as well, because I had such a strong positive response to this film.
Speaker 1:I was like I need to go onto letterbox and I need to read some one-star reviews. I need to see why people maybe aren't responding to this film the way that I am, because box office is never a movie like eddington's goal. It was released on, I think, like 2100 screens um around the country this last weekend, so it's never going to like make 100 million dollars or anything like that. But I am surprised to see like I think it has a low 3.2 3.3 on letterbox right now. It's like a 60 to 70 across a lot of the other platforms rotten tomatoes, metacritic, whatever, take your pick. So why is it that you guys think that maybe some people are split on this film uh, I, I think, probably because it attacks everyone.
Speaker 2:So everyone, if you can't, if you can't, uh, handle the attack, I think, I think you're gonna respond negatively to it. Um, I think also, like it's an extremely hard movie to market, right, like it's not an action movie, it's not a straight up comedy, even though it's extremely funny, and it's not even like a traditional Western right Like it's it has. It has a lot of those tropes and pieces all mashed together. But like what do you tell? I mean, I guess you tell someone it's a black comedy in a Western setting, but but really it's. It's about, you know, the modern world and social media and politics and all this stuff. So I feel like maybe some people are going in thinking like, oh well, joaquin in the trailer is wearing a white hat. So he is the white hat Western sheriff who's going to save the town from a corrupt politician.
Speaker 3:But really he's just as bad as that corrupt politician I mean, a lot of people say it's like if you didn't like bow is afraid, you're not gonna like this one, like a lot of people said that, but I feel like they're so different. I find this to be so much more well packaged than bow is afraid, like wow, well, they're packaged in very different ways. This is a much more approachable, mainstream way of packaging a film versus something like bow is afraid, which really is like, takes its time with you in such an epic way. Um, so yeah, I wonder if it's just kind of the absurdism like if people just aren't on board with the absurdism and like if it's not in a horror context, like maybe people are more willing to handle absurdism within that genre versus a more of a black comedy. But it also like, yeah, I don't know, but yeah, I think that's kind of maybe the main one, I would guess.
Speaker 1:I do think that a lot of people who have seen it and who have struggled with it are, I think I think they right like what you were saying, max. It attacks everybody, so they're seen there, they, they. It holds up a mirror to everybody and sooner or later you're not going to like one of those reflections. And so I think a lot of people are saying that like, well, this is virtue signal signaling. And Ari, as this woke white man is trying to be like Look, I'm one of the good guys, or I don't even really know, but it it just feels. It just feels like they can't see that he is also putting those people under a microscope where, like the one kid who basically turns into Kyle Rittenhouse by the end of the film, which is just so fucking.
Speaker 3:Gainesville, baby yeah, it's so good, it's so good, it's so freaking good.
Speaker 1:I turned to my friend and I was like or I think she said she was like, of course they're in Florida. It's just so funny.
Speaker 3:But like I, like I didn't. I saw some issues with Civil War, but I didn't find this to have that like I don't know. Some people said Civil War didn't take asides because people didn't like that. But yeah, it's like I didn't feel that way about this. I feel like this film was a little more honest and objective way, or like the ending, didn't I like the ending of this one?
Speaker 1:but I don't know, all of a sudden I'm just thinking of comparing to civil war because I feel like probably the same people maybe would have critiques of this I, I definitely agree and I I just think that like, when, when, uh, that that one character just to like close this loop real quick when he is at the vigil for his friend who he hated, but then he goes there and he has the line and again, this is the, this is one that like I can't wait for a rewatch so that I can get it absolutely right. But when he's like I'm delivering this speech on stolen land and I'm going to go home and think about that when I'm done talking here, or whatever, like it's like Ari is so clear that he's like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't be the one to tell this story.
Speaker 3:But like.
Speaker 1:I'm telling it and I'm going to make sure that everyone is is kind of like exposed here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think also people could hate it because it's bleak, it's dark.
Speaker 1:It's sad Like, yeah, the bad guy wins. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So true.
Speaker 2:Like we, we end the film with the big tech building open and uh. So yeah, I think it will probably leave a bad taste now, or a nasty taste in your mouth, but I I enjoy that nasty taste me too absolutely.
Speaker 1:Especially too, when, like I don't need the veil to be pulled over my face any more than it already is. Like I think we know that a lot of bad people won quote unquote during the pandemic. I think that we understand that, like we don't need to see the faces of these guys who were portraying antifa basically being flown in on a private jet by the big corporations like we and I think that's where maybe some people are like the film jumps the shark and it just like becomes so crazy at the end or whatever. Dah, dah, dah, dah dah. And it's kind of like, did you not pay attention to the news? Did you not see what was happening around our country? Like this isn't pulled out of like some far off crazy dreamscape of Ari's, like this was happening and and if you don't think that this still couldn't happen to fix a very like sensitive political situation, like then you're the one who's in denial.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I've also seen people be like, well, the Emma Stone, austin Butler plot line was like so it was unnecessary and yada, yada, yada. We should have gone into that more. More people need to pay more attention to to how people are billed when it comes to casting. Because this is the first time in a really, really long time where I have such a an appreciation for the movie poster that says and in the in in the credits, where it says with emma stone and austin butler, and, and it's just that should let you know that like they are basically there as like cameo characters, right, like the movie and it's all about his perspective.
Speaker 3:It's just about whose perspective it is, it's not supposed to be about them.
Speaker 1:Like, their characters obviously are going to have influence over his decisions and that's going to play a huge part in the film and so, like, appreciate it for that. But it would be like watching, you know, like some other big ensemble like Pulp Fiction, and being like you know this movie should have had more. You know, like Marcellus Wiley in it or Marcellus Wallace in it. You know like Ving Rhames should have been in the movie more. He's like no, he is this person that just kind of like affects everybody else's mood or whatever.
Speaker 1:Like we don't sure people, people can make a fan fiction about like, yeah, what if? What if there was just like a movie about these people? Or what if there was a version of the story that included more of that? Like, fine, great, that's your like, that's your opinion, man, you're entitled to it. But let's appreciate the story for what we got, and I thought that the balance between the supporting characters and who was obviously, um, supposed to like carry the film, which is basically the sheriff's department, and the struggle between the local politicians, like all of those people had, I think, a perfect amount of screen time and it balanced well, yeah, and that's really interesting because I, coming straight out of the theater I think I did say this to kaylee where I was like man, I feel like austin and emma were kind of wasted, but the more I thought about it I'm like, oh no, you know what?
Speaker 2:they're just really, really great in their roles and that's why I wanted to see more of them. And they're there because they love the story and and really respect Ari, right, and like. So, like you know and again like that, that kind of goes into like you know, behind the scenes stuff, but like yeah just be happy that it was them and not because maybe if it's someone else, maybe it doesn't work, right?
Speaker 1:Because it's not Emma Stone, the greatest actress right now.
Speaker 2:Because it's not Emma Stone, the greatest actress right now, or it's not Austin Butler, one of the hottest actors right now and who's just like such, he's such a good weirdo too.
Speaker 1:So that, like because you're absolutely right, like I think yeah, both can be true Like we can want more from those characters maybe, but because it's them in that limited role and not somebody who's like the third lead on severance or something, and it's somebody who were actually like holy shit. There's Austin Butler with his like pencil mustache and his like long hair and he's dressed in all white, looking like Jesus, and he's kind of doing a voice like this is perfect for a cult leader. Like yeah, absolutely perfect, yeah, yeah, okay, absolutely perfect, yeah, Yep, okay. So if you had to do, let's end on this, if there's not any more final thoughts, or this can be a time for final thoughts leading into, maybe like an Ari Aster ranking. We only have four films, obviously, but very different in tone from some of his others. Where would you put this in comparison to hereditary Midsommar and Bo's? Afraid?
Speaker 2:I have. So Iitary Midsommar and Bo's afraid I have. So I have Midsommar one, I have hereditary four, and then I think Eddington and Bo is afraid are in that two and three spot, I don't know which. I, you know, recency bias. I would put Eddington probably at two because I think it's much more funny. But then bo is afraid. But but bo afraid, bo is afraid is is really funny as well, but more in like a nightmarish, like hellscape way, uh, even though this is eddington's kind of a hellscape too, but but but so yeah, that's kind of where I land.
Speaker 3:I feel like I put Eddington number one for me just more. It is to me this one's just the most up my alley of all of his films. But and then for me the other three are kind of different enough that they're just their own thing to. But that's right, I'm just going to use the cop out of like, I'm not going to write the other three, the other three, the other three are all great films in their own ways and they're. But you think this is his, this is the one for me, this one is the best for me. Like this is just, like it's just. It just fits so much into the time. I think that the other ones kind of do like deeper dives on, like kind of like less topics or something, and I think to me the history of this is like how much he dives into in this time period.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great way to put it, because for me, midsommar will that will always be one. But a big part of me, if I'm being objective is is aware to exactly what you were just saying, that like, even though they create this whole town, they go out the costumes, everything, it's all just like made for that film. Like Midsommar is such a craft production, like down to every little bit of detail. So is this and it's unpacking a ton. Not that Midsommar isn't unpacking a lot, but like he bit off so much with this movie and for the most part, like I, I think he like gets it all back out there and it is so so well done. A part of me is like I will never re-watch this movie more than I re-watch Midsommar. But I think that he might have accomplished more with Eddington than he has with any other movie.
Speaker 3:I kind of want to bring up two more scenes, partly as a lover of podcast lovers, because I always want them to bring up the scene that I love. And there's two other like details that are so important to me. Number one when he, when you realize he fucking has covid.
Speaker 3:When he, when he's in the heart of that whole, when you realize he gets the photo, like he gets the, the text, and you're like, oh my god, of course he has covid. That's so funny because it's just like it makes that whole climax that much better, because he's like falling apart. I think when he kills the homeless guy in the bar he's has covid, like he's just like he's having covid. That's when he really starts to fall apart.
Speaker 1:So when he gets this swab up the nose and he's like, I'm like I was definitely exposed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was so good so I wanted to bring that up, had to. And then also the fact, like the whole sequence where he fucking frames michael the black cop and then the black cop is in jail like to me that was such a commentary of like once again a stab at the protesters, like not even the protesters, but of the, the way the culture has played out and the way things have. Just like somehow the black man still ends up in the prison cell. Like that to me, was like a huge commentary and just as the film was going crazy, I was just like that is so brilliant and tragic and right you're.
Speaker 1:you're introduced to this character who has obviously been accepted by this community as a minority. He has a past relationship with one of the people who has been protesting, all of these things. He feels almost untouchable and then the moment that it is beneficial to to the white people to use him as a scapegoat Joaquin's character in particular, and then his other deputy who we see become like completely racist over the course of the film. Yeah, they jump at that opportunity. Yeah, great commentary.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's insane, it's so wild is it?
Speaker 1:is it even worth discussing? Like, is this movie going to be an awards contender? I really don't know. I don't think so.
Speaker 2:You don't think so no, I don't think it's gonna. I don't think it's gonna play with, even though the osc, you know, and the Globes have made huge strides. I would be surprised if awards bodies be just because of the, again like the, the attacking nature of this film. Yeah, yeah, people are fragile, I'm sorry, people are very fragile and I I just doubt they're going to. They're going to try and you know, reward this.
Speaker 1:I think I agree with you and I think it's so stupid because a movie that attacks a lot of, maybe, people, not through necessarily the same subject matter, but a movie that was also like very attacking that I can think of in recent memory, that that was loved by the academy, it was like poor things, you know. Now, poor things is done in this like fantastical other world and it's all about the struggles of being a woman and I, you know, not that disease and all these other things that maybe eddington is touched is touching on gets brought up in poor things. But like poor things was a satire and something that was like really examining very topical issues, I feel like, but just done in this fantastical way and that's more easy for the academy to swallow, right, for them to be like. Oh yeah, maybe this isn't really our world because it doesn't look like our world.
Speaker 1:Eddington looks, feels, sounds like everything that everyone is familiar with and that could, unfortunately, keep it out of a lot of awards discussions, which is too bad, because I think this is going to be one of the defining films. I've already added it to my like best of 2020s uh, letterboxd list. Like best of the decade. It's my number one movie of the year. I don't think anything's going to touch this for a really long time. I think that I think that critics who aren't afraid to say that like, yeah, there's a little bit of us and all these characters, and that's good, that's what good art should do, they will be the ones that have it on their like best of list at the end of the year. But I don't think that translates um necessarily to to awards, unfortunately I like your comparison to poor things.
Speaker 3:I think that's a good like place to start with, if it could happen. But I also think poor things was like a much more like well packaged feminist film and like some of my actually feminist friends actually kind of didn't like that about poor things. So, like I don't know, I feel like this film is not packaged as right. Oscars are just known for going for the packaged film that has this statement like.
Speaker 2:This is the side too right yeah exactly like we didn't get anything last year oh yeah, it was so good. That's insane yeah, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately I don't think so favorite film of the year, though for you guys so far it's in the top five.
Speaker 2:What are your?
Speaker 3:other ones, max.
Speaker 2:I'm always forgetting what I even watched well, let me pull my letterbox up here and also this this will be our topic.
Speaker 1:We'll officially announce some of our favorites next week. But, um yeah, like if you were just going to give me like a couple of blind rankings where it was just like eddington or sinners, like I'm taking eddington, you know, just like a couple of the other favorites that I've had so far this year, this is leapfrogged everything yeah, I mean it's up there.
Speaker 2:It's up there with sinners f1, you know, uh, which again like those movies it's f1, just kidding.
Speaker 3:Well, those movies.
Speaker 2:I mean those movies are amazing and and much more of a traditional fun time.
Speaker 1:F1 saying a lot about the human spirit, okay I love that one.
Speaker 3:I couldn't f it. That one is all about.
Speaker 2:Second chances alright, oh god don't forgiving and forgetting. Don't do not that's great baby, but yeah, it's definitely, definitely in the top five love it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that'll do it for our Eddington episode. Kaylee, thank you so much for joining us today. We hope you had a good time.
Speaker 3:Thank you for much for joining us today. We hope you had a good time for having me. I had a great time. I was so excited to talk about this.
Speaker 1:Maybe this was awesome yeah, I'm really happy you jumped on with us. As for what's next here on the pod, we will finally be getting to our best of lists from the first half of 2025. Safe to say that there might be a few more eddington thoughts on that pod, but I know max and I are both excited to talk about some of our other favorite films from this year, anything that you still need to get off of your watch list before you feel really confident about your list next week gosh, I don't even know.
Speaker 2:Do you have any while?
Speaker 1:he's while he's browsing. Do you have any favorites to shout out, kaylee?
Speaker 3:yeah, I was thinking, like what has come out this year? Um, I didn't hate jurassic world that much, but that's not to say that it's one of the best or anything. Just as a comment of like last things that have come out this year. I mean, I did give it a terrible. I think I gave it two and a half stars, but I'm just saying I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:I had a good time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had a good time, why not?
Speaker 2:I really want to see the Ballad of Wallace Island, which I believe is a film that Marcus Baker brought up. I don't know if he brought up on the episode, but he and I have talked about it. I'd like to see that. That was a little indie that came out Earlier this year. What else I don't know? Megan 2.0 oh sure, I almost stopped going to the movies Because I couldn't watch the Megan 2.0, oh sure.
Speaker 3:I almost Not going to the movies because I couldn't watch the Megan 2.0 intro. Again, I was losing.
Speaker 2:It. I still haven't seen Companion and I know you know, alex and many other people I Respect love, love, love that movie. I have a shout out also.
Speaker 3:I need to see Companions. I want to see that one too. But Friendship, friendship was so great. I was a huge fan of Friendship. I like just so much joy and ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I still need to see Friendship as well. I definitely need to see the Shrouds, the Cronenberg film from this year I need to, for the fifth episode in a row, say that I'm going to watch the Ugly Stepsister this week.
Speaker 3:I want to see that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that one's going to be good. And then I really want to watch this movie called the Assessment with Elizabeth Olsen, and I want to say maybe Christopher Abbott, and it's a little bit ex machina-ish, it's a little dystopian, I think. It's like couples have to be assessed on whether or not they can have a child or not in this, in this not too distant future, and that's supposed to be a good little like indie sci-fi. So definitely want to see that film. So hopefully we have time to get to all of those so we can bring you a complete list next week.
Speaker 3:I have one more If I was going to be on next week, which I'm not going to be Echo Valley. I also really want to see the Julianne Moore and Sydney Sweeney one that's on Apple TV. That one looks kind of good.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I don't know about that one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, check it out.
Speaker 1:So until next time, please follow. Excuse the Intermission on Instagram and Max and I on Letterboxd to track what we're watching as well. You can find Kaylee on there also, I believe, and we'll talk to you next time on ETI, where movies still matter.
