Excuse the Intermission
Alex, and Max take you on a journey through film with this discussion podcast about movies.
Excuse the Intermission
Guillermo Del Toro’s Frankenstein with Filmmaker Justin Robert Vinall
A monster is born, a father is made, and a legend gets a new pulse. We brought filmmaker Justin Robert Vinall into the studio to dive headfirst into Guillermo Del Toro’s Frankenstein, pulling apart what this adaptation embraces from Mary Shelley and what it boldly rewires. We start with the immediate gut checks—why the production design is breathtaking, how the exteriors can feel oddly digital, and where the Arctic bookends unlock fidelity to the novel while straining the final act’s momentum.
From there, we go deep on performances. Jacob Elordi’s creature emerges as the film’s soul: empathetic, physically mythic, and quietly devastating as he learns language, kindness, and cruelty. Oscar Isaac’s Victor is a lightning rod—baroque and volatile, thrilling for some and cartoonish for others. Mia Goth brings poise and spark but isn’t given enough runway to leave a mark beyond one standout confrontation. We parse the lecture hall resurrection, the companion request, and the rushed father-son reconciliation, asking whether the story earns its closing warmth or retreats from the abyss Shelley dared to face.
This conversation keeps one eye on awards season—production design, hair and makeup, and a potential best picture play—while tracking where the film sits in Del Toro’s body of work. Is this a companion to Crimson Peak and Nightmare Alley, or a mid-tier entry lifted by an all-timer creature performance? Along the way we explore the themes that make Frankenstein evergreen in 2025: consent, responsibility, otherness, and the cost of creating life without love. Hit play, then tell us—did the ending land, and where does this monster rank in your GDT canon?
If you enjoy the show, follow the pod, share with a friend, and leave a quick review. Your support helps more listeners find conversations where movies still matter.
Welcome to Excuse the Intermission. My name is Max Fosberg.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm Alex McCauley.
SPEAKER_01:Today we're diving into one of the most anticipated movies of the year, Guimaran Del Toro's Frankenstein, a telling of Mary Shelley's classic through the lens of one of the most visually imaginative filmmakers working today. And we're not doing it alone. Returning to the show to help us discuss this monster flick is a visionary filmmaker in his own right, Justin Robert Fanal. All that up next after this short break. All right. Alex. Max. Justin.
SPEAKER_03:Max and Alex. We're here.
SPEAKER_01:We're back. We're on the mics. I think we were just saying it's almost been a year to the day, maybe. Actually, I guess Nasferatu was kind of more in Christmas time, huh?
SPEAKER_00:It was a Christmas Day release.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I think I'd seen it like early, like either late November or early December, because I was as hounding at trying to see this as early as I could. Bugging all my PR friends.
SPEAKER_01:We are we are all happily back here to discuss another monster movie. We had to bring in Justin, of course. But before we jump into the movie, how have you been? I I saw a couple weeks ago you had some big wins up north there in Washington for one of your recent films.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I have a proof of concept for feature short film called Stargazer. It's a uh cosmic ghost story about a a retired astronomer who has been reflecting back on his life and um has become obsessed over the last like several decades of studying this one star where he sacrificed family and having a life that felt more fulfilling to him. And one day he meets a young woman who bears the same name as the star he's studying. And yeah, it's been a really good run with the film. Like it played HP Lovecraft Film Festival and the one best film there, and just has been on a really wonderful hot streak right now. So I've been very grateful for all the love it's been getting. That's that's amazing, man.
SPEAKER_00:I was uh it played at West Sound, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was hoping to see it there, and then it just didn't work out that weekend. And so I'm gonna bug you after we get off mic to get like a screener because I've been dying to look to to get my eyes on this movie, and I'm so curious. I did not know it was a proof of concept. So this is me putting on my like podcast interviewer hat as if I did run into you at West Sound Film Festival or many of the other film festivals that it has been playing at. I'm so interested in the fact that it's a proof of concept, and then to hear you deliver that like log line, would that change at all if this turns into a feature film? Like, is there more that you would introduce people to within the story if it does get expanded?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so like when I it's a long story with how the film kind of how the proof of concept came together. It was supposed to be a totally different thing that fell through. So while I had the funding to make the proof of concept, I it within the span of two weeks before shooting, I had to conjure up this whole new idea. So I came with a feature script ready with concept art and everything, had to scrap all that to then pivot to Stargazer, and so we built the proof of concept first, and then the proof of concept was the a jumping off point for the feature. Um, so it kind of worked backwards in that respect. So I have a feature script for Stargazer that expands on the story, kind of expands on the kind of the cosmic elements of it all, and gets a bit more deeper into like the themes and the characters of the story. So yeah, very interesting, very cool.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you. That's that's awesome. That's I can't I can't wait to see that either. So uh make sure you add me on this screen or email.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I got you guys.
SPEAKER_01:Alex, how have you been? We uh listen, if we sound a little rusty, we haven't been on the mics all that often in in 2025, which you know has a lot to do with me moving away, but also uh Alex, you've been super busy. How's how's life going for you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I mean the last ETI episode that was released, I think, was our two-parter from the Gig Harbor Film Festival. And so that was a great weekend. But yeah, haven't really gotten a chance to unpack that or talk about any of the other things that we've been seeing because yeah, you know, school's back in full swing, so I'm doing the social work deal nine to five Monday through Friday, which especially this time of year and in 2025 and in the in quarter four of 2025 in the world that we're living in right now. You know, there's a lot of need and a lot of stuff that's taking up the brain space. I have still been watching a lot of stuff, but also let me tell you people like find the thing that is just going to be your visual NyQuil. That's what I like to call it. And for me, some nights, those are like ASMR videos on YouTube. And I'm just like, that's what I'm watching for an hour before I go to sleep because that's where I need to be. Sometimes it is throwing on a monster movie, and and that puts me right to sleep. Or, you know, it's pulling something off of the shelf that that is like a comfort movie. But but no, still watching a lot of stuff. There's some good TV out right now, one series in particular that has my attention. We can maybe talk about that at the end of this uh recording. But no, I've been I've been good. I've been looking forward to bringing Justin on for this episode. This is something that we've obviously had planned. These things don't just happen out of nowhere. And so to know that this was on the calendar is and then to see that it's kind of become like you know, like season two of ETI 2025 and starts starts with this episode is has been something that I've yeah, been been excited for.
SPEAKER_01:Right up sick. Hell yeah. Did you you guys have a good Halloween uh weekend since we're talking horror?
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah, yeah, Justin, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:Oh no, I was just gonna say it's just like it was it's it's funny, just like October. I'm always like starting out that month being like, oh, it's gonna be kind of low-key, and then there's like a bunch of like like the amount of like horror Halloween-related events and like uh Scarecrow Video does like their annual like psychotronic challenge, like a horror movie a day, which has been like I love doing them when I can do them, but they are real, like you know, I'm not trying to force movies, so I've been kind of shifting in terms of like absorbing or films this Halloween season. But yeah, I've been dressing up a pirate up like a pirate a lot and going to parties.
SPEAKER_00:Your letterbox followers appreciate the when you log that that daunting task of 31 movies in 31 days via the scarecrow recommendations. So we appreciate the work. We appreciate the work that you're doing.
SPEAKER_03:I'm I'm rusty this season, so hopefully next year I can pick it up again, but I'm still gonna try to get through what I can. Max, brother, yeah, have you been?
SPEAKER_00:What's new?
SPEAKER_01:I just yeah, busy, busy, right? I I just rapped about a week ago or two weeks ago on the third feature I've been able to work on down here in LA. Uh as a second AD, which was amazing. A little indie film called True Violence. Hopefully, we'll be out around this time next week. Or next week, next year. Oh, that's a turnaround. But yeah, that was great. Uh, it's a great, it was a great little 15-day shoot. Halloween was semi semi-crazy. I don't know. The actual Halloween night, I we cooked dinner and stayed in, but the night before we went out and Kaylee and I did the the exorcist costume. Oh, I was I was Max von Seidau and she was she was Lil Regan. So yeah, that was a lot of fun and unplugged. Uh we went to a screening that night of my film, Unplugged, at the Great Film Club, which was was a lot of fun and a lot of a lot of different people that we met. But yeah, yeah, uh things are things are rocking and rolling as always. But it I will say that my my horror intake was was pretty sparse this year as well. Although when I went and saw the film we're gonna talk about today, it kind of sparked like a good solid like 10-day run of like okay, every night I'm just gonna throw something something spooky on. So that was great towards the end of the month. But yeah, things things have been good.
SPEAKER_00:You know what I thought about doing just to like get some activity back going on the Instagram page was I almost wanted to do like a get ready with me, but like uh come find a spooky movie with me at half-price books and just see what was on the shelf. Yeah, I'm still thinking there's maybe something to this, maybe like come find a monster movie with me at Half Price Books that that I could do in conjunction with the release of this episode. So we'll see. Because yeah, I mean, I hate the word, but I miss making content, right? Like that's what the podcast is. That is my like creative outlet. So so for sure it feels good to be back. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, let's let's start jumping into Frankenstein 2025. Frankenstein 2025. Frankenstein stars Oscar Isaac, Jacob Alordy, Mia Goth, Christoph Waltz, Charles Dance, Ralph Einsen, a lot of other character actors in and out of scenes throughout the film. It was released in a limited capacity in theaters on October 17th. I think it only ran for about a week or two, but it will be available this Friday on Netflix, November 7th. Of course, you know, because it's a Netflix movie, I couldn't find any sort of box office, you know, data that we could we could take a look at because it I don't think Netflix releases that stuff, so box office mojo didn't have anything for me.
SPEAKER_00:But I was lucky enough to go 82 82,000 reviews on Letterboxd already, and this is obviously pre-Netflix release, so a lot of eyes on it.
SPEAKER_01:I I I'll tell you, man, we went to our small little like it's like our grand cinema here in in uh East Hollywood on a Monday night, and we got there a little late because we walked, and like the movie was just starting as we walked in, and we we couldn't find a seat, so they pulled out fold out chairs for us in the back and had to sit in the back. So I I was I was up I was very amazed to see that a six o'clock showing on a Monday night was completely sold out. We tried to switch tickets to the later show, that was completely sold out. So people come out for GDT, uh, at least in this town.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, even we yeah, there I was gonna well, I guess not surprised because of Netflix's output of theatrically releasing things, but I but I had to go to uh our small theater in Shoreline the Crest, which the last time I saw a film there was probably uh Marriage Story.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think I went and saw The Killer there. Oh, nice, nice. It's a good little theater.
SPEAKER_03:It is, I really like it. I saw a great like cat documentary there a couple years ago, too. It's it's a good little theater, and I like the aesthetic, but yeah, no, that theater even I think it was like opening opening nights, and uh it was jam-packed all the way down to the front row, so it was really cool to be like with an audience like I think the last time I was in a theater like that was probably oh no, I see heat technically, but like Barbenheimer was probably the one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, surprise surprisingly enough, the Galaxy Uptown has been screening two shows of Frankenstein a day for like the last week. Unsurprisingly, I was like the only person in my over in Gig Harbor at like six six p.m. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. Well, let's let's start with some quick first impressions, initial gut reaction walking out of the theater. Love it, conflicted, blown away. How are we feeling?
SPEAKER_00:I'm pro-Frankenstein. I I think that this movie has value. I am still undecided on the cast and whether or not I'm just annoyed or sick of a lot of these stars who I feel have just kind of been on this carousel of like 25 different actors that seem to be in every movie nowadays. Christoph Waltz being the the I think freshest and and the person who I was like most excited about in this movie, just because even though he's doing a familiar thing, it had been a while since I had seen that familiar thing from him. And so I I did quite enjoy him. But overall, in terms of being true to the original Mary Shelley book and being a faithful adaptation, and I think unpacking what the story of Frankenstein is really about at its core, this is faithful, and this is, I think, about as true to a Victorian, you know, mid-1800s, you know, GDT-inspired gothic retelling of this story, which I if you're gonna make your Frankenstein vision board, unless you want to go a lot darker and and maybe sacrifice some of the production design, not that it wouldn't be like I'm thinking I it's hard not to just think of Robert Edgers while you're both, you know, representing Nosferati right here on the video screen on the call, but like I know it could be done in other ways. I'm very happy with how this was executed, though, and so yeah, I'm pro, I'm pro-Frankenstein. Justin?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, so when I was leaving the theater, I was I felt entertained by it, but I was pretty conflicted with how it landed and some thematic changes compared to like I've been really into like looking into Frankenstein material this past year because I have a script that I'm writing that has a lot of kind of like Frankenstein elements. So I I I I read the book this past year, I wa I rewatched the original film, I watched all the Hammer Horror Frankenstein films uh for the first time this year, and then got through uh Kenneth Rana's 1990s uh Frankenstein. But this one, like yeah, I was really I was entertained by it, but uh uh similar where I I felt some of the casting choices and more so the character choices I was struggling with. In particular with Charles Dance and just kind of his like the the film is is is working on a failed parenthood uh theme, as opposed to kind of like coming from a place where the book and and this is one of those things too where it's like death by comparison because this thing's been remade so many or adapted so many times, and I think while it has like the bones of like the the the the book pretty pretty nailed down outside of like some changes that I think are good, I do uh struggle with some of the uh characterization and motivations of in particular Victor Frankenstein and just like how he uh switches pretty quickly on the monster, or the creature, I guess. I love the characterization of the creature in this one, and I have other thoughts on like the supporting characters, but like any other Garamo film, though, it looks uh the production design is stunning. I have some qualms about the uh cinematography, but overall, like in terms of tone and just what you get from a Garamo film, it's it's you know, it's he he he nails it in terms of like making something that's a period piece that's still highly engaging for a general audience level.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I yeah, I I I agree there. I I think Del Toro is you know, again, production design is really what stood out to me in the film. And I'll I'll say it up front, I'm I'm allergic to Oscar Isaac, I think. And and or maybe Oscar Isaac and I I don't I don't know. Uh I had that similar feeling walking out of another Netflix movie, House of Dynamite, where I'm allergic to Idris Elba. It just sucks. I uh these are two guys you're allergic to Idris Elba? He's really bad in House of Dynamite. Like oh man, I gotta watch House of Dynamite. I've been hearing wild things about it. But yeah, I I I just I I don't know, something about Oscar where he's either just he's like he he he's just so cartoony at points throughout the film that and and I know where it's it's a Victorian Del Toro, you know, period piece, gothic, but like he he just I I don't think he was the right person to play Victor Frankenstein at all. And and his performance to me just was a little too outlandish. Where I now granted, I I probably have the most the biggest relationship with the 1931 Universal Horror, you know, Frankenstein, and and he, you know, the actor in that role is big, but also like much more of like a mad scientist type, right? And uh so yeah, I I'm I'm so torn. I I think this movie's fine. I think it's I you know, I think it's good, right? Like I think it's well made. Del Toro has wanted to make this forever. You know, it was his dream to to adapt Frankenstein. I do really love the the creature design and the characterization of the creature in this, as opposed to some, you know, walking zombie that we've seen in the in in the past. But yeah, I it it's nowhere near, you know, some I don't even know if it's above shape of water for me personally, right? Like I when I think of the filmography of Del Toro, I don't know if it's it's definitely you know, Pan's Labyrinth is kind of just like up in the clouds up here, just hanging out. Like, I don't know if anything will ever get there. But yeah, I it's really interesting.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I think the movie that this is it's impossible not to, I think, look at this movie in Crimson Peak through the same lens where and Crimson Peak is a movie that I've oh that I've owned for a long time. I've waffled back and forth on whether or not I'm gonna buy like the arrow release of the 4K because it's a movie that lives rent-free in my head. And every time I revisit the movie, I'm like, still not as good as I wish it was. And I know that's where I'm gonna end up being with Frankenstein, is that I'm gonna take like six months or nine months off from this film, and it's going to grow in my estimation, and I'm going to think I need to return to it. It's a really comfortable, cozy movie to live in for two and a half hours, and then I'm gonna watch it and I'm gonna say, I wish they did things better. And and that's I think a trapping of the performances that Guillermo gets out of now. This is I hope that this isn't taken as like a weird thing to say, but out of like his English language speaking actors. Like, I think Pan's Labyrinth and the Devil's Backbone and some of his early work that he was making in Spain worked so well. Like, he is such a good Spanish filmmaker. And whether, you know, because I'm watching Oscar Isaac and I'm the same where I'm like, I I don't love this performance, but I'm also really glad that it's not like Pedro Pascal or somebody else who we're just so tired of right now. And and and so I know that that's how I'm gonna end up sitting with this movie, so I'm trying to be cognizant of that in real time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I also felt that like even though it was two hours and 29 minutes, it felt like it was three and a half hours, but then when walking out of the theater, I felt like it needed like four hours to tell its whole story.
SPEAKER_03:I agree, yeah. I think I think by the time you get to like I think the first half, I I think like everything leading up to the building of the creature is fun. I think everything with the creature, my favorite part of the novel is like the creature stuff where he's where he's trying to understand the world and like being like the the the the outsider like helping this family at the cabin. I love all that stuff. I love his perspective of the book. And then like it feels pretty fast by the time he goes the are we spoiling this? I well it's a it's it's like a 200-year-old book, too. So it's Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_01:If you know the story of Frankenstein, you should come out from your rock, stop listening to podcasts, and go read a book.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah, by by the time you get to like when he's asking for the companion to be made all the way to the end, it's pretty quick. And I have like huge gripes with like the ending ending, but we can get to that. But just to jump real quick back to the casting, I I I was thinking about Oscar Isaac recently just because uh he has he's an actor I really want to work. Like I I remember seeing him in Drive and being like, Who is this guy? This guy is great, and then I saw him in ex Machina inside Llewellyn Davis. Yeah, he did most violent year. Like he's great, and then pretty much and he's really good in Star Wars, but after Star Wars, it he gets a little clunky with like Age of Apocalypse or Apocalypse or whatever it's called. I haven't seen scenes from a marriage, but like he just feels a little aimless, I guess, in terms of like where his trajectory is, and I would like to see more versatility from him, and I and I think maybe it's more of an issue with him playing kind of yeah, cartoony in this, and I and I do agree that it's probably some of it is is uh Garamot's like um direction for for the actors as well, because uh even Charles Dance is like for as minimal as he is in it, he's he's kind of playing it up a bit, or even Christoph Waltz, who I am just I like um I I think Christoph Waltz is good from Inglorious Bastards and Django, but I haven't really fallen in love with a performance from him that maybe outside of Alita Battle Angel. And I feel his performance is a little tired in this for me. But the highlight for sure is Jacob Alordi. I love Jacob Alordi in this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Alordi is the creature, especially when he is like, you know, firstborn, right? And he's uh learning stuff within the house and then eventually down in the sewer like area. It's it's like heartbreaking. He's really good. He's really, really good at just like emoting, and he's such a you know, tall, you know, physical guy.
SPEAKER_03:Very prometheus looking.
SPEAKER_01:So prometheus, right? I mean, he wasn't it they ape that from no, but yeah, I mean he looked just like an engineer.
SPEAKER_03:Well and I and I think they only had like what a month or so because Andrew Garfield was supposed to be the creature, which would have been a very interesting choice. I would have been curious to see what that looks like, but I think El Lordi really just like really he might be my favorite like version of the creature. Karloff is great and like a like a staple for like the iterations of like how we get to Frank, like the creature that Frankenstein creates, but uh I loved just kind of the empathy and body language and everything he was doing on screen. I wasn't crazy about his like Wolverine type of like regeneration powers uh that he had, but again, like that's just a that's more of a minor detail. He was born that way.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I think I'm sure you're well, and I was just gonna say, and I'm sure told to be behaving that way, right? It's some it it's so much of his micro expressions and the things that he can actually communicate as an actor through the role that I think he nailed, and and some of the the bigger stuff I'm sure was you know written for him, or he's told this is what we need from you, and some of these louder moments. And and yes, these are almost like your superpowers, you need to lean into it, you need to go out there and you know, wreak havoc, and and then he's just left to the devices that he's given. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Great, great hair for a corpse. Oh, yeah, no, beautiful, luscious black hair. I think it's just more so the choice the directing choice that he regenerates. Like, I'd rather like the like because at the beginning you see kind of his rotting hands where like the skelet like the the skeleton fingers are kind of poking out. Like I I would rather the body be like continually rotting or falling apart rather than than it kind of building on top of itself. I do like the depiction of like when he dies, he like immediately like he he he is in he describes it as being in like yeah, black nothing, and then wakes up to you know insufferable pain.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think it's a great point to bring up that you know obviously these actors are are directed this way, right? And and there may be some some stuff lost in in translation between Del Toro and and someone like Oscar Isaac, but but also it could just be Del Toro's choice to be like, well, this is a Victorian period piece, we're going to ham, let's let's ham it up.
SPEAKER_03:But I think he's always been hammy though. Like I think uh a greater offender maybe of like a a foreign director to uh American uh uh filmmaking is maybe Park Chan Wuk. Like Stoker, I feel like suffers at like kind of the theatricality of like Nicole Kim and What Are You Doing? Yeah, yeah, it's really going out there. Yeah. Where Bong Jun-ho, I feel like doesn't have that problem. Like there's more storytelling issues that I have with like some of his American adaptations, but in terms of like getting a performance out, I think he he he's usually there in comparison to whereas Guillermo, you know, he is yeah, Spanish filmmaker first, yeah, Spanish filmmaker first and American filmmaker second, but I still think he is able to articulate what he wants to get across well, because you look at like something like Pacific Rim, and that's very hammy, and Charlie Hunnam is just hamming it up and loving it, and Idris Helba in that respect. But um, but but uh I think this is more of a faithful reimagining of a hammer horror Frankenstein film than it is of a Mary Shelley one. And I think that you know, a lot of the reason why it's getting more appreciation as a as a Mary Shelley adaptation is the inclusion of the uh the Arct uh North Pole Arctic shipp ship uh bookends. Because the Kenneth Brown one, while extremely f flawed, I think is possibly the most faithful. And even Bride of Frankenstein is like pretty faithful to the book, is this yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So so how did the two of you feel about the the narrative choice to book in the story like that? Because that was the first thing that I noted right away where I thought, okay, here's here's a familiar plot device to and and of once again, we know the story of Frankenstein, right? You're gonna first show us the monster as this wildly imposing, you know, unkillable creature that is just wreaking havoc. And then of course we're gonna get to see the I I like how you said it almost Max, like the birthing of the creature, the creation of the creature, we're gonna get to know him, the sentimentality behind him and everything, to once again then like learn oh yes, this is also a destructive beast, but because we've now learned his emotions and we're gonna get to know him, we're gonna have a different relationship with with him. Other than the violence that we first met the creature through. So how did that land for you guys as far as quote unquote, you know, effectiveness?
SPEAKER_03:I found so the I think it looks great. Like the whole like the the the being in the Arctic, like when he's like seeing um at the end of the film when Oscar Isaac sees the creature in the distance standing there, like looking out to him. It looks great. The ship looks great. The ex the only Gyramot can make like a blunderbuss look insane. I like the uh yeah, the the the the the violent, aggressive nature that El Lordy has and the depiction of the monster at the beginning. I found it interesting that when we do cut back from the end of Victor's story to pivot and have the creature like almost like a play, like just then come in and be like, here's my side of the story, and like kind of like owning the the captain's quarters as like a like a stage almost, which I liked. The ending ending with it, I feel is a bit lackluster. Here's a guy that chases after this creature that is like caught like has been part of like this whole like turmoil and like in in accidentally shooting Elizabeth and getting his brother killed and you know all this sort. I feel the way that Oscar Isaac calls him son and how they like it feels a little too fast, and this is where I'm like I would have liked a little bit more time to have like explored kind of like how they've hurt each other a bit more. I feel like Oscar Isaac is a bit more accepting of that, and I was a little like if they had stuck the landing, I probably would have been a little bit more forgiving of the movie entirely, but because like for me it's like the movie is about fathers and sons, like I just feel it's a little quickly resolved.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, that that whole last act is just we're just flying by the seat of our pants through time, and and so yeah, that resolution at the end is is goofy and like just kind of like you said, lackluster. I would have loved and you know I guess if he's trying I I've never read the book, so I don't know exactly how the book ends.
SPEAKER_03:Uh it ends similar to that where the creature doesn't show up halfway, he just shows up at the end. Like it's all from Victor's Well, so it's from Victor's perspective in the first half, and then in the flashback, the creature gives his perspective, and then we're back to um Victor's perspective when he attempts to create the companion, but then decides against it, and that's when the creature's like, I'm gonna kill your wife and everything, and yada yada yada. So when it ends, Victor just dies by himself, and when the captain goes to check on him, the the creature is there mourning his loss, and so the creature then says, I don't want belong in this world, I don't want to be in this world, so I'm gonna go light myself on fire and die, and that's how it ends. And I'm like, fuck. So it's like I would have loved that way more.
SPEAKER_01:But like, give us a downer ending, like what yeah, we don't need to Franken the creature's just walking around Antarctica for the rest of the time, just taking in the sun.
SPEAKER_03:Like, so the the the Kenneth Branagh version ends similar to that, and it's simple where it's like it's goofy with Robert De Niro as the creature, but there is a moment like at the end when the captain like asks the creature what's his name, and creature and Robert De Niro's creature says, He never gave me a name, he was my father, though. And it's like that's you know, that's enough where like I just when you have Oscar Isaac just kind of have this quick turn, just being like, You're my son, I'm like it just doesn't I don't buy it, especially like with kind of the relationship he has with his father in the film versus the book and other adaptations.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, and and the fact that he's been running from this monster, you know, I don't know for how long, but like up until we get to the boat. You're right, just to like I, you know, he's supposed to be. I guess he I guess he is turned sentimental because of the creature's telling of his story, which also was a very goofy part, I felt like, even though like very play-like, where he enters and he's like, I will tell you my story. Uh and almost kind of like it had also a little bit of a like a court court case, like the the captain's the judge, and and like you know, the def the defense has spoken now, the prosecuting creature will speak. But yeah, man, it it yeah I I I totally agree with you that that that turn just was was flat, very flat.
SPEAKER_03:And I think maybe under a different actor, maybe it would help it, or maybe it's just a choice to like maybe stay a couple beats longer before he says, You're my boy, or something. Like just to put the point on the Crimson Peak element of it all, like I think someone a friend of mine said like this would be a good role for someone like Tom Hiddleston. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I can see Tom Hiddleston being Victor. Because he's definitely there's definitely like uh elements that Oscar Isaac's playing that Peter Cushing did as uh Baron Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_00:So part of part of me is wondering if if what will help this movie maybe one day be reclaimed is not so much the Victor stuff and everything else that happens, but but solely Jacob Alordi as the creature, because I do think that this is the best, and we've touched on this a little bit, but I think that this is the best chance that an audience has had to truly understand the subtext of the monster and of what it means to be given a life that you didn't ask for, the frustrations of that, right? And then to struggle with feeling like you don't fit in. And I think that there's so many parallels that you can draw to just you know identity and gender and everything else in 2025. How much of that do you think was intentional, and how much of that do you think is maybe us just projecting that onto the film as an audience in 2025?
SPEAKER_03:I think it's both because it's like Frankenstein is like the story is like the blueprint for so many like stories of the other, the different person, the you know, the outcast, the you know, the deformed or what have you. It's I I I I think I think it works as both, where you're getting a very you're you're getting you're a I think a lot of audiences when Nostradu came out, just to bring up my our boy, I remember people were humored by Count Orlock's look. And I'm like, well, if you read the book, the Dracula, that's how Dracula looks like Dracula is he he uh well more so he has like a white mustache, white hair, and he's and and and and it's like it's it's pertaining to like the look of a uh a nobleman from that from like 300 years prior of that uh Transylvania nobleman of that time. It's like Nosferatu is like like like you know, we don't have to go into it again, but like it is a it is masquerading as a Dracula film, yeah. Oh in terms of the creature for this one, I think it gets us away from kind of like what the universal monster version of the creature is and gets us more of like yeah, a more faithful version of the creature, and you know, I I I do think that there's longevity with especially you know L Lordi's relevance right now in terms of like popularity. I think you know, if Bill didn't get nominated for best supporting actor, I do think that El Lordi has a pretty good chance here. It seems like they're pivoting better for awards season than Nasseratu was, which is baffling to me. But I do think it's gonna be more accessible to people in regards to its length. I'd be curious to see how much people would be engaged with it now that it's on a a streamer versus uh theatrical.
SPEAKER_00:Right, that's what I can't wait to see. Yeah, like will the euphoria crowd come out for yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean mud, like what they came out for challengers, right? You know, so you can only hope that well, but then you have the Sydney Sweeney stuff of it all, where did they come out for Christie? I don't even know if Christy got like a good run either, you know. Yeah, uh I know Sydney Sweeney has her own stuff too.
SPEAKER_01:Well, but if the Euphoria crowd if the Euphoria crowd comes out, comes the Netflix to watch Alordi as the monster. I think they're just I think it's gonna get just hated on.
SPEAKER_00:I think what I'm saying is I think they'll be paying attention to the most important part of the movie because it is a Lordy and it is the it is the messaging of what are we doing to people who are you know not asked to live a life that is made for them. Right. Oh, fair point, fair point.
SPEAKER_01:It's gonna be on the people to not second screen though, while they're at home watching this on Netflix, which is like, you know, the especially because it takes an hour and 15 minutes for him to even get into the movie. To get into the movie, but then also like I mean, you you have to pay attention. There a lot of people are talking, it's it's you know, at times it's Victorian, you know, language, and you know, there's a lot of yeah, there's a lot of build-up and setup to then you know hit home that that message of of the other or the outsider.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Which is so funny because in the book, it's like a page when he brings the monster back. He he's like, I I use the instruments of life and I bring them back, and he's he's horrible looking, and I run away, and then you know, we we get to him going back. So it's so funny. Like, I think the the whole bringing the creature back to life uh is is vital to all these adaptations, but I just think it's funny that the original text is like one page.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Does the original text have like the lecture hall scene where he is in front of Ralph Einstein and else? I wanted to bring that up.
SPEAKER_03:I actually had pretty big issues with that scene. That scene's wild. It's wild, and it's it's it's it really made me conflicted with the the approach to the film at that point. So when that scene happens, I'm like, so he already knows how to bring the dead back. Right. And does that and it feels less impactful when he does bring a Lordy back? He's just able to do a bigger version of it, a more stable version of it, because he's got the moolah. I also feel like he wouldn't get kicked out from no lecture. And Waltz is like, oh, they'll forget it by tea time.
SPEAKER_02:I'm like, What are you fucking kidding me?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, joke, right? He just made a corpse open its eyes. Yeah, I was shocked that they did something like that, and and that they're like, you know, be gone with you.
SPEAKER_00:Parler tricks.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm like Charlatan. I was uh I that that's I I stumbled a little bit with the movie there because I was like, that is a choice, and it's like it's very Garmo to like kind of it feels like a guermo thing. Like I'm a Nightmare Alley defender, and it feels very much so kind of like a scene from Nightmare Alley, or it's like, look at this neat trick I got here, and it's very kind of nonchalant, like the world that he's like living in with it. But yeah, no, it was uh it was a wild scene. That's that's not in the book. That is uh and he doesn't he doesn't lose a leg from the tower exploding either. But I do like the idea that he loses his leg from the tower exploding. I don't know what it doesn't really do much thematically for me, but I like the idea.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's just kind of like a you know, the creator is he he is rotting away too, right? I yeah, hmm. Yeah, I I heard Justin, you mentioned awards. What do we think as far as Oscars go or I mean Oscars? Are we are is anything gonna get nominated? Do we think this is a best picture nomination? The Academy loves GDT, they've they've definitely given him his roses many times before with nominations, but then also you know, he won for Shape of Water. Yeah, what do we what do we think on that front?
SPEAKER_03:Was Nightmare Alley nominated for any it was best pitcher, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh shit, yeah, which Nightmare Alley, fantastic as well.
SPEAKER_03:Like again, I was surprised. I was surprised by how many people don't like it. I'm like, this movie's rips, I don't know why people like it. I would say okay, it wasn't nominated for director. I would say technical stuff, like hair. I think Heron Makeup he kind of has in the bag, unless I can't think I'm trying to think of a movie that comes to mind. My award season brain has not kicked in yet at all. Like I'm I'm getting screeners from the DGA, but I'm like like I haven't like I want to see like I haven't seen the smashing machine yet, so that's where I'm at. Which I don't I think you have best makeup. But I definitely think Garamo gets nominated for that. Frank and Sang gets nominated for that. I think you know, all the technical stuff. Maybe not cinematography, but production design. What was your problem with the cinematography? I think, you know, a lot of I think it's uh I just think that a lot of the exterior stuff didn't have like there wasn't any dynamicness to a lot of the look, especially like more so with greenery scenes, like scenes where like um Victor's mom, or no, is it Victor's mom? No, it's it's Victor's dad comes home. It's just kind of very plain. Doesn't there's not really like like there's color popping, but it just feels like the lighting's pretty flat. I think I think where it strives in a cinematography is uh controlled sets like inside. I don't think the sewer stuff looks that great. I think the the the Arctic stuff looks good, I think the the farmhouse stuff looks good, I think it's it's just it's just didn't really like where Noseradu, you're just to be to compare one gothic thing to another, but Noseratu I feel like is working on a level where there is a lot of dynamic lighting and framework and atmosphere where this feels like I'm missing it feels digital compared to like Crimson Peak. Crimson Peak I have problems with, but Crimson Peak feels more like early, uh it feels like Pan's Labyrinth more and feels more lived in, where I feel like I'm looking at sets, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So I think the cinematography hurts it. This to me felt at times a lot like a Tim Burton movie, say Sweeney Todd, Demon Barber of Fleet Street, and I and I don't think it's trying to at all, whereas at least those Tim Burton movies are going for that look. Like I'm thinking of the way that London looks in Sweeney Todd, and that's a choice, and it's executed. Whereas I don't think that that's what they wanted with this movie, and like when he comes out of that lecture hall, I was like, Oh, whoa, this, yeah, like a little jarring.
SPEAKER_03:Is it the same DP as Nightmare Alley?
SPEAKER_01:Because Nightmare Alley, I I like the look of Nightmare Alley, but well, I I I think I I I think what it comes down to, I I'm guessing, and I don't know this for sure, but I'm guessing a lot of this was shot, you know. Netflix studios, yeah, in the in in a studio, maybe even with like a volume up. Like I I can see that because you're right, the digital like feel of it was way more than any other Del Toro film I I could remember, other than like Pacific Rim.
SPEAKER_03:I you know, which yeah, and that's like you know, very unique.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, so I I was a little taken back by that that feeling throughout the throughout the movie. But but again, but then again, when we're inside, uh just like Justin was saying, when we're inside spaces, production design, like these sets that they have built are very like rich and beautiful, and especially Franken or Dr. Frankenstein's like his is it like his his workshop, yeah, yeah. Like there's just so much eye candy that you can look at in the background. I think production design is is is a lock for a nomination. I can't think of anything else that like this year has had you know such such richness to it and such you know yeah, there's no like Dune or anything like that that it's or Barbie or anything that that could you know steal it away from it. So I I think productions design is a lock for the Oscars.
SPEAKER_00:Same with costume and like hair and makeup being. I think all of those categories it gets nominated in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, those those period pieces usually do well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, especially when they come from an auteur that has a track record with the Academy.
SPEAKER_01:Any of the big what is it like the big six?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I mean the one name we haven't said yet is Mia Goth, and I don't think there's anything in her future here, but I'm also curious if this moves does this performance for you guys move the needle in any one direction for her? I like Mia's again. She's just so like she's on this carousel of actors who I actually love. I I love Mia Goth. I don't think she's ever really made a poor choice in her career. For me, this didn't move the needle at all, and I was a little bummed. Like, I didn't love her, I didn't hate her. She's still right where she was a week ago before I had seen the movie.
SPEAKER_03:I like her. I mean, I like her. She she moved the kneel. I mean, I think it moved she moved the kneel for a lot of people at the time with the uh X trilogy, like all of those films. Totally, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like all those movies, it's going right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, I even liked her in like you know, and it's an understated movie, but like I like uh A Cure for Wellness and Love A Cure for Wellness, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like every movie she was showing up in was like ping ping.
SPEAKER_03:Give more Bioshock, you bastards. Gore's coming back.
SPEAKER_00:When isn't Gore coming back this this year?
SPEAKER_03:He's got like a he's it's a wild ass looking movie, but yeah, he's coming back with Sam Rockwell, yeah. Yeah, uh what played the director jail? Because I feel like he was like he just disappeared. Was it Care for Wellness?
SPEAKER_00:Care for Wellness was his last film in like 2014. Yeah, that's something crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Wild. I I like Mia Goth. I I think this is just you know a good role for her. She does well, she plays two parts, she plays the mom as well, so and she's good as that. But yeah, doesn't really, you know, just is serviceable in this, I would say. I'm very curious about her in Star Wars Starfighter. I did not know she was in that. She's apparently the villain.
SPEAKER_00:Oh that would be great. My my word would be nervous. Uh apparently they wanted Mikey Madison for that, and was like, no. But then of course Mia has the Odyssey, so you know, depending on how that's she in the Odyssey? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. Her and everyone else.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for real.
SPEAKER_03:Her along with the three of us. And to announce it, boys. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I really love the scene when they're at the the dinner table, and it's just her and Oscar Isaac, and she like challenges him, you know, pretty much. And but like other than that, she really doesn't do anything. And and you're right, Alex. I I I just think the needle doesn't move at all after that moment. I would have loved to see her do her thing and like get a little if if if we're gonna have Oscar Isaac over here, you know, yelping and and and really emoting, like, give me some crazy Mia as well, you know, give me some Pearl.
SPEAKER_03:I think, and they they it's it's it's uh it's unfortunate too, and again, just death by comparison. But in the book, Elizabeth is an adopted sister to Frank uh to Victor, and he grows up taking care of her, and they kind of have an incestuous kind of relationship. And I'm like, oh, that's the fact they don't do that in this film is a bummer, but I like that there's a little bit of strange attraction to the future a bit.
SPEAKER_00:Freud Freud would go crazy with this movie, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I like that they'd go with that, but I think if they had gone a little further, like I when she dies and he's taken her away, I'm like, oh my god, we're gonna do the bride. But then the bride doesn't happen. I was like, fuck.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, and that was another like very rushed, weird moment where it's just like oh, she's just dead in a cave somewhere.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And it's like, yeah, we're like mourning the loss of like a person that was like the only compassionate person to Victor and to the creature, and now that person is gone. And I feel, yeah, it's like what you said, like it's just rushed. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:At least at least Victor has his milk to drink while he copes. Yeah, yeah. Again, again, I don't, you know, there's maternal fingerprints of weirdness all over this movie that I think are uh they'll be you know for someone else to unpack, but I'll enjoy listening to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so if no one well a Lordy, we said maybe, maybe uh best supporting, though I I feel like that that category's pretty pretty packed this year.
SPEAKER_00:That category always ends up so stacked.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I'm trying to find I'm trying to find the gold derbies like look at at the moment. Yeah, yeah. Sean Penn is like the the guy that's gonna win.
SPEAKER_01:I I mean I if if Sean Penn doesn't win, I would be shocked, shocked, absolutely shocked. Like I'm willing willing to put next month's rent on on Sean Penn winning.
SPEAKER_03:Bro, yeah, I'd be the same, to be honest. He's incredible in that. And then I'm seeing sentimental value tomorrow. So I'll see how some of Skarsgard shapes up. But I mean, yeah, supporting actor, actor at least looks pretty jam-packed, but he might he might sneak in, he might be a dark horse.
SPEAKER_01:He's really good. Do we think best picture or best director for this film? Is this one of the 10 best films of the year?
SPEAKER_00:And maybe like Nelsperatu got a nomination, and I don't want to say that the academy now has like two slots and best picture reserved for like a DEI pick, you know, where they're like, we're gonna throw a genre film in here, we're gonna throw an animated film in here, we're gonna throw something in that isn't an R-rated adult drama. So maybe if if you subscribe to that thinking that of the 10 nominations, the Academy does set aside one or two for some diversity. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I I I agree with that. That thinking I guess you we still have Wicked for Good coming. We still have Avatar, an Avatar movie is coming out. Oh my god, I forgot about Avatar in December. Big Jim.
SPEAKER_02:Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, both of those movies, Avatar 1 and 2 were both nominated for Best Picture. You know, Netflix is really good at campaigning. They can get nominations for sure.
SPEAKER_00:I was just gonna say they're great at getting noms. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:However, I I do feel like they have like a big slate this year that they're kind of pushing all of them, at least from what I'm seeing from you know, traveling around LA, like with billboards and all that. You know, Jay Kelly is gonna be pushed hard. You know, House of Dynamite, I I don't think we'll get a nomination, but they I think they kind of had hopes for that. But yeah, Frankenstein and then what was the other big Netflix?
SPEAKER_00:How's how's Rebecca in House of Dynamite?
SPEAKER_01:Because I would love to she's the best part, she's the best fucking part, and I don't know why you guys have not seen it, and I don't want to say yeah, is it on Netflix or on Netflix? It's on Netflix now, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. I'm not a big like uh I I'm very uh back and forth on Catherine Big Low as a filmmaker. Like I love like I think well, probably it's got some issues in in hindsight, but I really like Zero Dark 30. I think what's it called? Near Dark Near Dark's great in her locker. Yeah, I just watched Strange Days for the first time.
SPEAKER_01:Strange Days is so fucking good. That movie is awesome. That movie is awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Point break is awesome, yeah. Yeah, point break. Okay, maybe I'm more pro Catherine Bigelow.
SPEAKER_00:But when you just but when you take eight years off between movies, it's hard for people to have a rhythm with your work. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, and then it's Detroit too. Like Detroit wasn't like huge either, and I think not as beloved as like Zero Dark 30 or Hurt Locker at the time. You're right. Doing that Cameron run, just off and away doing stuff. Well, and so like Nasserado only got cinematography, costume design, production design, and makeup, hair and makeup nods. And I would say that's a stronger film, and I'm kinda and but I guess it's it does come down to campaigning and moolah. Yeah, but um, yeah, I don't know. I uh probably best picture nom like the like the last one, but uh unless like something crazy pops out. Uh well I guess Marty Supreme and Smashing. Well, that would be it in Smashing Machine and Marty Supreme, probably.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Marty Supreme. What was the other can movie? Oh, it was just an accident, yeah. It was just an accident, and then also like Sinners is also a very like horror forward genre picture that I think will be in there for best pictures.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, agreed, and we had the substance last year, so that would make sense, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so maybe a best picture, definitely like some below the line stuff. I don't think Del Toro is gonna get a a director Nom. Again, I just think like with Kugler and PTA and you know Hamlet, yeah, Hamlet. Yeah, I just I I I I think it's it's two-packed, and there's only five five spots. And you got two safties, so yeah, it's yeah, right. Yeah, one of the one of them's gonna probably get one of them.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and if this gets nominated for pitcher, then he's there as a producer, anyways. So it's nice. So it'll work well. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, one last question before we get you out of here. What where does it land in your and I you know, we're not we don't have to sit here and rank all his films, but in the filmography of Del Toro, where where does it sit? Is it kind of in the middle, lower half, top half? What do you think?
SPEAKER_00:So I mean, I definitely have it above stuff like Hellboy 2, Blade 2. Terrible, terrible. Yeah, I mean he's got some kind of stinkers in his career. I think I think that I'd probably put it above Pinocchio for as much as I I like the oddity of Pinocchio. This guy's career is fascinating, honestly, when you look at his movies. Middle, middle of the middle of the pack, you know. I think it's somewhere right around like Mimic, Shape of Water, Cronus, or Kronos, but it's definitely it doesn't get anywhere near like the devil's backbone or Pan's Labyrinth. I like Pacific Rim a lot more. I've watched Pacific Rim in a ridiculous amount of times in my life. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I love Pacific Rim for not obvious reasons. Stop the clock. We're drift compatible.
SPEAKER_00:The cheesiest air guitar you've ever had.
SPEAKER_03:It's such a bummer. The sequel is just nowhere near as good. I like the Charlie Day kind of turn, but man, it's just like it's just rough. I think I'm probably about the same. Yeah, I think Nightmare Alley is just leagues better than Frankenstein. I might I I I probably like it more. I probably like I probably like Shape of Water more. But I I think I'm I I be I've been wanting to revisit Crimson Peak, so I'll see and that's like mid-tier for me. So I'm probably I'm probably about the same as Alex for like mid-tier Del T.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think I think mid-tier as well. On the lower end for me. And that's crazy to put this movie above those two.
SPEAKER_03:Bro, I went to go pick up something from a friend's house, and they just were starting Blade 2, and I was just I was just talking to them about to leave, and I stayed, I was just I stood at the door of watching Blade 2 in its entirety. I like Blade 2 a lot. I think it's a lot of fun too.
SPEAKER_00:Well well he that begs the question: what is Guillermo best at doing, honestly? Because is he best at doing camp like Mimic and Blade 2 and Pacific Rim and Hellboy, or is it like you know, uh love letters to the Spanish Civil War and his childhood and the movies that he grew up with, and stories like The Devil's Backbone and Pan's Labyrinth, and to a certain extent, I think you can put like Nightmare Alley in in the conversation with those movies. So because he's good at both of those things, right? So then it just depends what do you like him for. I think I like him for for the latter of those two, and that's why I put something like Frankenstein above Blade 2 and Hellboy and and and the other films that are sort of on that that side of the line. So I don't know. I I think it comes down to personal taste of his.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think so. I think also too, Frankenstein is merging like you know, heartfelt tragedy to a lot of camp. Like that blunderbuss and how it works is crazy. Like I can't stop thinking about it. But like I do love a lot of his camp stuff, like Pacific Rim, but I his his Spanish language stuff, like Fans Labyrinth and Devil's Back when it's just immaculate. So it's hard to say. I I I think of anything, what's nice about him as a director is that he is kind of so strong in genre jumping that it's like he he's fluent in everything he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if it's not successful, it's at least like I know that's a G Del T film, and I and I appreciate it. Like I I don't love this iteration of Frankenstein, but I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's really interesting to look his last three movies now, Frankenstein, Pinocchio, and Nightmare Alley, are all adaptations or remakes or whatever you want to call them. They are existing IP, right? Where you know, I'm always gonna be pulled way more towards something like Devil's Backbone or Shape of Water, even or Pan's Labyrinth, where those are like original works from him. And I just I think he's you know, after winning the the Oscar for Shape of Water, you know, he's kind of gone on this run of like doing some of his favorite stories from history. Now let's let's get back to give me give me some GDT original stuff out of your head. But you know, he is such a skilled filmmaker and such a style, right? Like it's such a stylist, you know, as as I think Justin said just said, like you can always tell when you're watching a GDT movie, but let's I I I don't think we need another Frankenstein adaptation. I I think we can we can nip it in the butt.
SPEAKER_03:I'd be I'd be curious about one in like I don't know, it's like it's like every time we get a new Batman every 10 years or so. Like I wouldn't mind one in like another 30 by someone else. Like I know Eggers tried to write one. I mean, I'm always like if Eggers wrote like you know my little pony story. My little pony, I'm there day one. Like I don't I don't want him to do like I'm not stoked that he's like doing the labyrinth sequel, but I'm like, oh I'll be there fucking day one, you know. You know, I'm I'm all in for whatever he does. But yeah, I mean it's just like it's a story that I mean this story's been retold in so many variations from like uh Alien Covenant to other ones that just come to mind. But like the the mad scientist archetype kind of tragic creature story has had so many variations over the years that I don't think it's a tired story. I think it's about just how you put your flair on it. And just one last thing I wanted to add about Frankenstein, I think it's nuts that you end the movie with a Lord Byron quote in fucking sane, because the whole thing with Mary Shelley releasing the book at the time is that nobody wanted to read a book that was by a woman. So her husband took credit for the book, Percy Shelley. And once the book got really popular, she wanted to have her name back on it, but there's a whole back and forth thing. And her and like Lord Byron and Percy Shelley, like we're all pals and whatnot, but I just think it's so tone-deaf to qu to to to end the movie with a quote from a man and not from like Mary Shelley. From Mary Shelley, like like poll, like she like I what poll fucking quote from the book or even the um Or don't do a quote if you don't do a quote. I even think yeah, I don't even think the quote's necessary. I just think it's distracting, especially like if you know the context of like the whole book, how it got made, and just her relationship with those people. I just think it's a very strange choice. And I know he like it was pulling a lot from like the romanticism uh era our art of that time. But I just think it's like not the best decision to end it with that quote. But that's you know, again, just going into it with like a lot of like pre uh just a lot of expectations from having read the book and everything, and just in an inundating myself with Frankenstein shit.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, I mean again, this is like a a century-old story. Like you have to understand that there's going to be like the filmmakers have to understand, GDT needs to understand that there's going to be countless people who have done their homework, who are coming in well versed in this universe, and so to to And I don't mean it to be no, but just like a decision like that's going to go under the microscope, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And and yeah, no, a hundred percent, and I agree with that. So I just I and I know I was I'm watching some interview with him where he's like, I want to make a story like about my father, and I'm like, okay, great. So that yeah, informs so many decisions in the film. I still think like at the end of the day, with the kind of the context of where the story came from, ending with the Lord Byron quotes, is a little lost on me with that. So, yeah, no, 100% on that. Yeah, but I don't need it, I don't need the the the the the the film to be a direct adaptation either. Like I like my eye Frankenstein's have have it out there, you know.
SPEAKER_01:We're gonna get another Frankenstein movie. I is it oh yeah, the bride in a couple weeks. The bride by Maggie Gillen.
SPEAKER_00:Maggie Gillen, huh? Uh I think I think I saw that got bumped to maybe 2026.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, did it? I I believe it's like a Bonnie and Clyde Russ Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_03:I was looking at a trailer for that. That thing looked wild.
SPEAKER_00:I'm very, very pulpy. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Like I'm fine with that. Like, you know, like these are like it's like um God's or Maria Antoinette or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like these things have been around for so long. Like, I'm happy to see so many different variations or directors' flavors on it, like like uh Frankenhooker, you know, like there's so many like great like there the the the story I think is timeless, and I think you can readapt it as long as like you're adding something unique to it. And I think you know, what is unique to it for Gueramo is his his visual flair and you know the personal story of his his father, his relationship to his father, and how that kind of echoes through generations. But again, I don't think that's like what the book's getting at. What the movie is getting at is, you know, more so personal for him, which is fine. But I just I I think again the biggest issue is how quick Victor is to turn on the creature. I would rather the creature maybe cause a bit more of a reason for Victor to be aggressive to him rather than immediately chaining him up downstairs. But you know, I get it. It's a two and a half hour long film, can't have it be three.
SPEAKER_00:Three to four. One one more note on the father thing to cast Charles Dance as this father figure whose presence and impact on Victor is going to loom over the entire film. I think it's so interesting that that the casting department, that everyone involved, uh however they finally landed on Charles Dance, for it to be somewhat like you there's a short list of the most memorable father figure characters of the 21st century, and Tywin Lannister is on that list. And so for it to for Charles Dance to be in this role, that is another thing that I think was just a little jarring for me, and especially too, like there were a lot of similarities in the role of like the mother dies in childbirth, you know, that's what we were told happened to to Tywin's wife when Tyrion was brought into the world, and it caused this rift between father and son. And so again, another part of me was like, How many of us had Tywin Lannister as a father growing up? Like it seems like it seems like that's a very once again, just a very familiar archetype in in storytelling right now.
SPEAKER_03:It's a shorthand for sure, yeah. Yeah, it's like oh okay, I know this actor, and he's usually like playing like this type of role. So like I spiritual, yeah. Yeah, not my favorite part, but you know, and and in the book, he's like a far more gentle father, and I rather and I and and again it's like Victor fucks up everything in his life because of like his overambition and ego, because his world was was served to him on a silver platter. The movie kind of gives him a bit more of a chip on his shoulder, which I don't mind, but you know, it's familiar for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, anything else we wanna for for the good of the order, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, because Max will be back soon to talk about other stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Begonia. You can't oh I mean I'm always begonia.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, I'm always seated for for your ghost, and so that'll definitely happen. You know, welcome to Derry. I can't wait for those new episodes every week. I'm just trying to think what else, you know. I'm really I hear that show's crazy. It's wild. And Max, as as someone who grew up in a house that beloved King's work and especially the it story in that universe, I think we should definitely set aside some time on an upcoming episode to talk about it. Yeah, because that's that's some good stuff happening right now in HBO.
SPEAKER_01:I can't wait. I can't wait to jump back in. I'm I I think I'm still yeah, I'm sitting on episode two. Can't can't wait.
SPEAKER_00:I I'm curious because Justin, I don't know how much I know our our shared friend Gio is he loves this stuff, and I saw him give this movie like a five-star review. I Chainsaw Man.
SPEAKER_01:Chainsaw Man?
SPEAKER_00:Chainsaw Man, the movie.
SPEAKER_01:Chainsaw Man is an anime anime hit.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, he's a big anime head, yeah. This is what I'm saying. So I need to either talk to him or talk to someone else who has talked to him, and so I don't know if that person is you right now, or but I'm like, there's all these movies that I feel like are just five he did just they're slipping through my fingers, and I'm like, do I need to watch this? Because there's a handful of people whose opinions I really truly respect on this, you know, who we bring onto this this pod. You're one of them, Marcus Giovanni's definitely somebody who who I've grown to, you know, when they log something five stars on Letterboxd, I'm like, oh shit, what what is this movie about? Um it's 288 minutes.
SPEAKER_03:I ain't watching this fucking movie.
SPEAKER_00:Not right. It's a hundred minutes. I'm I'm looking at Chainsaw Man.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's also it's also a series, so it's it's an anime. Oh, I'm looking at the wrong. He gave the series a five stars.
SPEAKER_03:That's it. Uh is it Chainsaw Man the movie Reza Arc? Yes. Oh, I see it. Yeah, Matt gave it a four. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:I I 59th highest movie of all time right now on Letterboxd. Really? I'm gonna have to watch this thing. This is what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you're right. Yeah, 59 right there.
SPEAKER_01:Anime is having a huge moment at the theaters. I mean, between K-pop Demon Slayer, this is there was another Niza.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if it's really considered anime, but like you know, the most successful box office film of all time now is like Niza.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh no, no, you're right. The the Chin the Chinese um animated film, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. We talk about your name all the time. Yeah, anytime you want. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:No, and then you thought it was sick. Like, yeah, I gotta watch this thing now. I know, I know Gio and Matt are really like they're I'm very casual anime. Like, I love um perfect blue.
SPEAKER_00:That's been having a big run right now, repertoires for I think the 20-year, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Ghosts in the Shell, Evangelian. I love, but yeah, like when you get like once you get into the perfect blue, actually. Yeah, when you get into the weeds with the yeah, chainsaw man and there's another one, Matt Blue.
SPEAKER_00:I'm getting well versed in I'm getting very well versed in the world of the Evas. I think I'm gonna feel good. I think I'm going to try and pick up the complete series on Blu-ray over the holiday season. Because just to bring it back to GDT, feels very Pacific Rim as far like is that the one where like angels are coming to it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I just had some friends telling me about that series too.
SPEAKER_03:It's incredible. I love that series, I love the movies. If you do end up watching it, watch the whole show first, skip episodes 25 and 26, which are movies, correct? So no, those are just episodes, but they ran out of money. Okay. So then he goes to make the movie, which is the end of Evangelian. Right. And then after that is the rebuilds. So like it's like Evangelian 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 plus 1.0.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yes. End of Evangelion is one of these movies. I think probably a lot like Chainsaw Man, which what we're seeing is once you've done the homework or once you've at least watched this series, and this is the way I feel about Twin Peaks Firewalk with me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:If you've seen the series, you see, I didn't watch the original show when I watched The Return, and I was enamored by the Return.
SPEAKER_00:Which order have you watched Twin Peaks in?
SPEAKER_03:I watched The Return first. Okay. And then I went back and watched uh the original run. And then you watched Fire with me? Yeah. Interesting. But I still was like enamored by everything and was just like loving every decision. And anything that I missed on it was contextualized for me when I went back and watched it. It's like, oh yeah, that makes more sense. But like for the most part, I still think you could still follow it, even if you didn't. I mean, someone who didn't watch it, I was still like understanding what was going on. I had a I had an idea of who Dale Cooper was at that point. Sure. Didn't expect for the that journey to go in the direction it did, and I love it. So like like the returns like incredible.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so here's here's your promise that you're gonna make to us on ETI that then you need to follow through on another podcast. But when you and Matt go on that end of the year show to do your top 10, oh yeah, you need to have seen Chainsaw Man the movie by okay.
SPEAKER_03:I will watch I'll I'll put it on my my watch list right now.
SPEAKER_00:And and I'm gonna I'm gonna make a promise to do the same for our best end of year episode because yeah, when a movie like this comes out, I'm like, there's there's again, we I think you know, Max and I, we've talked about this all the time. I know you know this, Justin. Like, and as a filmmaker, you're always trying to watch everything, but like there's so many pockets of film out there that whether you're not exposed to it, you just don't know about it, that exist that you know are taking people and and truly impacting like the 59th best movie of all time, you know, like it's truly impacting lives. That's crazy. What's number one?
SPEAKER_03:That's interesting. That's very interesting. That's crazy though. Like, good on Chainsaw Man. Good on Chainsaw Man. That's crazy. Is that like so? That's like the most popular film that's been released this year. That's compare that's nuts. Very curious now. I'm very curious.
SPEAKER_01:We gotta learn to draw.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, apparently. No, yeah. No, I'm definitely gonna check it out now that you've put on my radar because I think I've heard people talk about it, but I've not heard about the impact until now, so I'm very curious.
SPEAKER_00:It's beating out Frankenstein in popularity right now this week on LB. So there you go.
SPEAKER_03:Jesus Christ, all right.
SPEAKER_00:Now that won't happen, you know, that won't be the same. I can't wait to see Frankenstein. We I didn't I think we talked about this already, but I can't wait to see once Frankenstein hits Netflix this weekend, the the response.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, I'm very excited. I'm very curious to see how people will take it because it's like a match will finish it. Yeah, like I just saw an article before hopping on saying like Frankenstein and 60 other films come into streaming, and I'm like Wow, holy.
SPEAKER_00:So, you know, oversaturated, but also too, like, will it get memed? Will there be a moment that becomes that kind of goes viral? And then whether or not you've seen it, you know, it like will it be a movie that has you know, I don't think it's gonna live on in perpetuity or anything like that. Like, we're not talking about the next like American psycho or some movie that you know is still gonna be discussed, but like I think when we all saw Nosferatu, we knew oh, this has this has that amazing balance between like memeability with like make about about nosferatu, about Count Orlock, and and then it also has this amazing prestige to it that's going to also keep it relevant in you know meaningful conversations for a long time.
SPEAKER_03:I think if anything, too, we'll see how it does next Halloween. Because I saw a lot of Nosferatu and like Yeah, Lily Rose Depp's character like partner costumes. Yeah, yeah, I've been seeing that a lot. So I'd be curious if like anyone does that next year with El Lordy and uh Mia Goth's character. Yeah, good. You know what we didn't talk about? This is a quick, quick aside is David Bradley as the uh blind old man. He's great. That whole section is great. Like, again, just can't praise that sequence enough. It's really good, different from the book, but I liked I really like you know, I'm sensitive to the kind of like the father-son thing recently. So like I I was really appreciating that like I got to see the creature have like a tender, nice, loving relationship to David Bradley's character, which again only flattens the impact at the end because David Bradley felt more like a father to Jacob Alordy than Oscar Oscar Isaac ever could, and it's only because it's like it's the guy who made him versus the guy who actually it's the whole like Spider-Man where Spy where we're we're where Norman Osborne's like, let me be a father to you, and he's like, I had a father, it's Ben Parker. Yeah, not to be a Spider-Man. Well, yeah, yeah, I think I got it all out.
SPEAKER_01:Plus, ripping ripping apart those wolves was was pretty pretty metal.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it was kind of sick. Oh my goodness, the way he broke yeah, it's kind of sick. Yeah, yeah, it was dope.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that uh yeah, go see Chainsaw Man, then go home and watch an anime. Go home and watch Frankenstein, which will be on Netflix this Friday, November 7th, for what's up next on ETI?
SPEAKER_00:Maybe we're playing catch-up, yeah, and and we're playing catch up, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Justin, do you have anything to plug?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Oh gosh, I guess like the only thing is again, like I mentioned at the top of the show, I have a film, a proof of concept short films called Stargazer. It is wrapping up its festival run for 2025, but it's gonna be restarting probably in February again next year. We're gonna keep doing a whole run, and then around this time next year, we're gonna do kind of like a big special screening to try to get more uh potential investors or producers or eyes on it just to try to make it into a big boy feature. Outside of that, I don't know, got like a bunch of stuff on the stove tops. I'm producing stuff with Matt, I'm making stuff, I'm just kind of trying to stay busy. Yeah, but you can find all my stuff at um www.justinrobertvinall.com. All right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, check that out. Check out what we're watching in between shows, and we will see you next time on excuse the intermission, where movies still matter.
